Creation vs. Evolution

[Rosenritter]

Logical fallacy arguments are tricks or illusions of thought, and they sneakily used by evolutionists to fool people.

Ty.... your 'argument' is an appeal to the majority. Fortunately science and truth have nothing to do with popular opinion. Your argument also is dishonest, but would be honest if you had said something like 'most experts'. Amazingly, there are also thousands of experts who get their degrees from universities which teach old earth beliefs, yet they insist the evidence does not support that belief. IOW...They get there PhD's understanding what is being taught, but don't agree with it.

A few experts are corrupt perhaps. I don't think any are dumb. But the experts certainly have different interpretations of the evidence based upon which history they believe in. Are you suggesting experts are corrupt or dumb when they disagree with you?

Ty thinks that if the professed god is evolution then their motives and methods will be pure. If one's professed God is of Creation then their motives and methods will be ignorant and corrupt.

So if evolutionist researchers embrace new data then why do they fire people who carbon date dinosaur tissue, and why did the labs refuse to process further samples from the scientist once they discovered his young earth beliefs?

Don't kid yourself Ty, this is very much about politics and religion.

 

[gcthomas]

Ty thinks that if the professed god is evolution then their motives and methods will be pure. If one's professed God is of Creation then their motives and methods will be ignorant and corrupt.

So if evolutionist researchers embrace new data then why do they fire people who carbon date dinosaur tissue, and why did the labs refuse to process further samples from the scientist once they discovered his young earth beliefs?

Don't kid yourself Ty, this is very much about politics and religion.

I don't recollect anyone getting fired. But the ban was simply because the creationists had used deceit to gain access to facilities, then misrepresented their work.

Deceit seems to be OK amongst creationists.

 

[Tyrathca]

Ty thinks that if the professed god is evolution then their motives and methods will be pure. If one's professed God is of Creation then their motives and methods will be ignorant and corrupt.

No I think that those who dedicate their life and careers to the pursuit of knowledge and the scientific method are for the most part rather honest, altruistic and inquisitive. I also don't judge scientists who study evolution or related fields which suggest an old earth by different standards than I do other fields of science. My comments were about researchers and I've never seen any suggestion that those scientists within this particular field are all that different to scientists in others (they certainly publish and peer review in much the same way as all the others).

Creationists get judged as ignorant because they ARE in general ignorant and furthermore they don't apply the scientific method or subject themselves to proper peer review. This is judging them as I would any active scientist in most fields, not evolution related specifically. I don't view them as corrupt per se.

I also see that you aren't above bastardising the meaning of the word god while you're at it too... Why?

So if evolutionist researchers embrace new data then why do they fire people who carbon date dinosaur tissue, and why did the labs refuse to process further samples from the scientist once they discovered his young earth beliefs?

I just read up about that now but it seems that the guy was taking it to court claiming religious discrimination but legal experts seemed to think his likelihood of success was extremely slim since he shared his views to students when in an education role. That to me seems to be a no-no, regardless of the field if you hold a fringe belief within the scientific community you don't try to convince students of it. That said the decision to fire him seems harsh and a written warning would seem more appropriate (though they'd hardly be the first employer to do a knee-jerk firing). However I couldn't seem to find any reports on what the outcome of the court case was, I would presume there would be a result by now(?)

Don't kid yourself Ty, this is very much about politics and religion.

Only because you want it to be.

If you judge evolutionists by the same criteria as any other scientist you will find that they are indistinguishable.

 

[Rosenritter]

No I think that those who dedicate their life and careers to the pursuit of knowledge and the scientific method are for the most part rather honest, altruistic and inquisitive. I also don't judge scientists who study evolution or related fields which suggest an old earth by different standards than I do other fields of science. My comments were about researchers and I've never seen any suggestion that those scientists within this particular field are all that different to scientists in others (they certainly publish and peer review in much the same way as all the others).

Creationists get judged as ignorant because they ARE in general ignorant and furthermore they don't apply the scientific method or subject themselves to proper peer review. This is judging them as I would any active scientist in most fields, not evolution related specifically. I don't view them as corrupt per se.

I also see that you aren't above bastardising the meaning of the word god while you're at it too... Why?
I just read up about that now but it seems that the guy was taking it to court claiming religious discrimination but legal experts seemed to think his likelihood of success was extremely slim since he shared his views to students when in an education role. That to me seems to be a no-no, regardless of the field if you hold a fringe belief within the scientific community you don't try to convince students of it. That said the decision to fire him seems harsh and a written warning would seem more appropriate (though they'd hardly be the first employer to do a knee-jerk firing). However I couldn't seem to find any reports on what the outcome of the court case was, I would presume there would be a result by now(?)
Only because you want it to be.

If you judge evolutionists by the same criteria as any other scientist you will find that they are indistinguishable.

That wasn't the instance I was referring to. But "Devote their lives in pursuit of truth?" You've been taken for a ride.

 

[gcthomas]

That wasn't the instance I was referring to. But "Devote their lives in pursuit of truth?" You've been taken for a ride.

You really need to get out of the house and your Google bubble, and talk to actual research scientists. At the moment, you are talking out of your hat.

 

[6days]

I think that those who dedicate their life and careers to the pursuit of knowledge and the scientific method are for the most part rather honest, altruistic and inquisitive.

Wonderful!

I also don't judge scientists who study evolution or related fields which suggest an old earth by different standards than I do other fields of science.

Great!
However, you should realize that they are dealing with their beliefs about the past. The same applies to young earth scientists who study the evidence.

Creationists get judged as ignorant because they ARE in general ignorant and furthermore they don't apply the scientific method or subject themselves to proper peer review.

Tyrathca... it would seem you are the ignorant one... not understanding science. All scientists use the scientific method. However the scientific method is done in the present...not the past. Evolutionist and creationist scientists examine the exact same DNA...the exact same distant universe...they apply the same scientific method on fossils, bateria in peatree dishes etc.

...legal experts seemed to think his likelihood of success was extremely slim since he shared his views to students when in an education role.

Oh...HORRORS!! Someone dared to think there was intellectual freedom to discuss contrary interpretations of the evidence. Evolutionists want students to to be taught WHAT TO THINK... INSTEAD OF HOW TO THINK.

 

[6days]

?
Don't kid yourself Ty, this is very much about politics and religion.

Mostly religion.... two different belief systems about our origins.

 

[Tyrathca]

That wasn't the instance I was referring to. But "Devote their lives in pursuit of truth?" You've been taken for a ride.

Oh well then I have no idea what instance you are talking about. I googled "dinosaur tissue carbon dating fired" and that's the first thing that came up, oh well.

However I believe it is really you who has been taken for a ride. Have you known or worked with many scientists/researchers? I have (not in these fields though) and my experience of them both directly and via the published literature matches each other and what I have said. There are always a few bad eggs in every profession but they are not the norm or common in science. What do you base your disdain for scientists on? (other than you disagree with them)

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[Tyrathca]

Tyrathca... it would seem you are the ignorant one... not understanding science. All scientists use the scientific method. However the scientific method is done in the present...not the past. Evolutionist and creationist scientists examine the exact same DNA...the exact same distant universe...they apply the same scientific method on fossils, bateria in peatree dishes etc.

Ah no it is completely possible to apply the scientific method to the past since no one has a complete knowledge of it. Yes they examine the same thing but while creationists only reinterpret real scientists make testable predictions/hypothesises. Where are creationists testable predictions? Evolutionists have whole journals regularly publishing theirs yet creationists haven't said anything new or discovered anything new in.... Ever?

Oh...HORRORS!! Someone dared to think there was intellectual freedom to discuss contrary interpretations of the evidence. Evolutionists want students to to be taught WHAT TO THINK... INSTEAD OF HOW TO THINK.

Actually he told them what to think as well. But the key thing is they were students, you don't "teach the controversy" to students and ask them to muddle it out for themselves until they are fairly advanced. Not for biology, not for chemistry, not physics, not engineering, not medicine, not education, etc.

But hey let's just treat creationism as special and give it a free pass we don't give any other fringe view. What's wrong with double standards after all? Astrologists might be a tad annoyed though... (and there are a lot of them...)

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[Rosenritter]

Mostly religion.... two different belief systems about our origins.

I meant politics in the ugly sense mainly, but also the classic sense. Rome used to demand Emperor worship. Now evolution is a state-sponsored religion so the two are mixed.

 

[Rosenritter]

Oh well then I have no idea what instance you are talking about. I googled "dinosaur tissue carbon dating fired" and that's the first thing that came up, oh well.

However I believe it is really you who has been taken for a ride. Have you known or worked with many scientists/researchers? I have (not in these fields though) and my experience of them both directly and via the published literature matches each other and what I have said. There are always a few bad eggs in every profession but they are not the norm or common in science. What do you base your disdain for scientists on? (other than you disagree with them)

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Where did I say I disdain scientists? Rather I said you were naive. People are not the idealist crusaders you seem to think they are. That would be the exception, rather than the rule. The curious part is that you seem to think that the subset of evolutionists are the pure idealists and the subset of creationists are ignorant base and lowly.

Just to demonstrate fairness, I reserve similar skepticism for "religious professionals" rather than assuming all have pure hearts and a desire for truth.

 

[mitchellmckain]

I do not read Genesis as a science text or a "Creation for Dummies" book or as a comic book story about an ancient necromancer creating golems of dust and bone with magical fruit and a talking snake.

I am a scientist first and science is part of the way I look at and understand the world around me. So I naturally read the Bible in that context to see if it had anything meaning to say about the world as I experience it. I found that it did.

But I will tell you one thing. If it wasn't for evolution I would have deposited the Bible straight into the nearest trash bin. Otherwise the philosophical problem of suffering would have made it all sound quite ridiculous and the god portrayed as worthy of nothing but contempt. But from evolution we learn that life requires suffering and without it life would not develop to exist as we know it.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I do not read Genesis as a science text or a "Creation for Dummies" book or as a comic book story about an ancient necromancer creating golems of dust and bone with magical fruit and a talking snake.

I am a scientist first and science is part of the way I look at and understand the world around me. So I naturally read the Bible in that context to see if it had anything meaning to say about the world as I experience it. I found that it did.

But I will tell you one thing. If it wasn't for evolution I would have deposited the Bible straight into the nearest trash bin. Otherwise the philosophical problem of suffering would have made it all sound quite ridiculous and the god portrayed as worthy of nothing but contempt. But from evolution we learn that life requires suffering and without it life would not develop to exist as we know it.

Dear mitchell,

Wow, you are a lost cause already, aren't you? You place so many of your marbles into evolution. Didn't you see my Post #20779 on Page #1386? Evolution is one thing that I'm sure doesn't exist. It's a shame for you. You don't know God well enough to decide what to make of Him, yet. How it is that you came to the deductions you came to surprises at least a couple of my friends here, besides me. It must be meant to be. I do know that God separates the wheat from the chaff, so I do understand where you are coming from. Go for it.

Michael

 

[Sherman]

The ​derailment that lead to the closure has been pruned. A reopening of this thread may be forthcoming.

 

[Sherman]

Thread is now open. Please note derailments will be removed and the derailers banned from the thread. The topic of this thread is Creation-vs-Evolution. This isn't the place to make unwelcome personal comments about other users.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thread is now open. Please note derailments will be removed and the derailers banned from the thread. The topic of this thread is Creation-vs-Evolution. This isn't the place to make unwelcome personal comments about other users.

Dear Sherman,

I can't thank you enough! You are one fantastic moderator!! I will PM you now, if you don't mind. I won't make a habit of it.

God Bless Your Big Heart!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

Am back! I will try not to close my thread again. I hope so badly that you all will forgive me. Sherman, I can't Thank You enough!! You are SO Efficient and Interesting!! You sure know what to do to fix things!!!

With His Love For You!!

Michael

 

[Sherman]

I will be watching this thread anything that is spammy will sent to the Spammer's Wasteland. I just pruned an off topic video that was posted.

 

[patrick jane]

Dear All,

Am back! I will try not to close my thread again. I hope so badly that you all will forgive me. Sherman, I can't Thank You enough!! You are SO Efficient and Interesting!! You sure know what to do to fix things!!!

With His Love For You!!

Michael

I'm glad we talked through PM and you decided to open your thread again. As I promised, I will close my thread now. I'm happy I suggested it to you and you agreed. Your thread is the original and has a lot of history to it !! You are the best Michael !! Have fun !!

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'm glad we talked through PM and you decided to open your thread again. As I promised, I will close my thread now. I'm happy I suggested it to you and you agreed. Your thread is the original and has a lot of history to it !! You are the best Michael !! Have fun !!

Dear patrick jane,

I'm glad we talked also. I can't believe this is all happening, but I will do my best to make up for things. I appreciate your gesture, patrick!! Thanks very much for your help during this thread's transition. It was nice being on vacation for a while, I must admit. But I'm as ready as I'll ever be. When you asked me to come back a second time, I felt you really wanted me to!! My very best to you!!

May God Grant You Much Joy And Comfort,

Michael