Conversation with Knight about losing faith

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bybee

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Lon said:
Can a 'person' make you lose faith? :nono:

1) We all recognize that representatives aren't always the 'best' representatives. TOL, especially, is a 'smack' kind of place. It is ridiculous for someone who doesn't like 'smack' to come here. I suppose 'friends' is a reason, but that had to generally take time while smack was taking place.

2) Christianity isn't just about 'us.' If it were, it wouldn't be Christianity. Granite, a year ago, was right about that: We believe a "Christian" is identified more regarding his/her relationship to Savior than people associated with Him. It doesn't always happen, but we should have a greater appreciation for the difference between a faultless God, and His faulty (but found faultless) people.

3) If you lose your focus from the trophy, you lose the prize. You may quit something because of somebody, but it is the local group you quit, not the whole.
For instance, I might quit football because I don't like members of the team or coach, but I'd really have to have become jaded to hate football ever after that AND it isn't an acceptable expectation or excuse imo.
You CAN'T blame me or someone else for something so drastic. NOBODY can keep me from Christ, NOBODY. If such were the case, I wasn't playing football for the game, was I? If I am not doing something because I love the goal of it, any complaining/blaming afterwards is all about ME and no one else. That much is CERTAINLY true. -Lon
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Well said. Yet we are to be as lamps held high and salt of the earth.
 
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Lon

Lon

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bybee said:
Well said.
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bybee said:
Yet we are to be as lamps held high and salt of the earth.
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Yes, we should be endeavoring to attract people, but it isn't us they can be attracted to concerning Christianity. Being "with" us doesn't make one a Christian, and so being away from us, cannot unmake them one. Christ makes Christians. If we miss Him, we've missed being able to rightly be called by His name.

If by "Christian" someone means something other than being Christ's, then I suppose I see Anna's and Granite's point, but that definition would only mean 'social club' and so I'd have to see Knight's words as right: It'd be meaningless if they 'lost' Christianity because all they had was a social club membership and it is nothing to worry overtly about losing: ONLY Christ saves (I realize I'm preaching to the choir at this point, just hoping some of it makes sense and helps those like Granite and Anna understand). In Him, -Lon
 
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bybee

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Lon said:
Yes, we should be endeavoring to attract people, but it isn't us they can be attracted to concerning Christianity. Being "with" us doesn't make one a Christian, and so being away from us, cannot unmake them one. Christ makes Christians. If we miss Him, we've missed being able to rightly be called by His name.

If by "Christian" someone means something other than being Christ's, then I suppose I see Anna's and Granite's point, but that definition would only mean 'social club' and so I'd have to see Knight's words as right: It'd be meaningless if they 'lost' Christianity because all they had was a social club membership and it is nothing to worry overtly about losing: ONLY Christ saves (I realize I'm preaching to the choir at this point, just hoping some of it makes sense and helps those like Granite and Anna understand). In Him, -Lon
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Again, good points! At times I have become very disappointed and even angered by things happening in my church. That has nothing to do with my faith. But, I am of a generation that doesn't blame others for our own misfortunes and mistakes.
The famous parental line of our day was "I'll give you something to cry about!" We were taught to take our medicine and not be crybabies. But, truly, my Sunday School teacher and my grandmother were powerful witnesses to the Love of Christ for me.
I am rarely able to be indifferent. I want to help. I've learned, painfully, that not everyone wants or even needs my help.
 
Quincy

Quincy

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genuineoriginal said:
Pursuit of happiness was explored by Solomon who wrote about it in the book of Ecclesiastes.


Ecclesiastes 2
2 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.​

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What an unpatriotic thing to do, denounce the pursuit of happiness.... that is... unless you just don't personally understand the difference between gratification and happiness.
 
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bybee

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Quincy said:
What an unpatriotic thing to do, denounce the pursuit of happiness.... that is... unless you just don't personally understand the difference between gratification and happiness.
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Solomon was very old when he wrote this. This was after a long life of self gratification and pretty much doing as he pleased.
 
Quincy

Quincy

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bybee said:
Solomon was very old when he wrote this. This was after a long life of self gratification and pretty much doing as he pleased.
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That makes a lot of sense. Context is always crucial and should still be applied regardless of someone's motivation.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Quincy said:
What an unpatriotic thing to do, denounce the pursuit of happiness.... that is... unless you just don't personally understand the difference between gratification and happiness.
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According to John Locke, it is supposed to be "life, liberty, and property.”
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Granite said:
Anna, I see where you're coming from, but keep in mind: If someone's driven from the faith in part because of the behavior of other believers, that's often taken as a sign that the heretic was never "really" in the faith, and good riddance. A way of separating chaff from wheat, as it were. Never, ever expect hard-core believers to feel remorse or the least little bit of guilt for "outing" someone who was "faking" their faith; if anything, they take pride in it.
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Granite, I miss seeing you here. You had a way of putting ideas and people in perspective and I miss that. And yet, I know you're happier away and so I'm glad for you. Hope you're doing well in all ways.

As as for the thread subject, I haven't changed my mind.
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
annabenedetti said:
Granite, I miss seeing you here. You had a way of putting ideas and people in perspective and I miss that. And yet, I know you're happier away and so I'm glad for you. Hope you're doing well in all ways.

As as for the thread subject, I haven't changed my mind.
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you couldn't have just written that in your diary? :freak:
 
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