Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[God's Truth]

All the posts meshak leaves is identical to Russell's beliefs. Same thing.

Maybe you can explain how and why Pharaoh was starting to believe and obey and then God hardened him not to.

According to Calvinists, no one can believe and obey until they ARE SAVED.

In addition, you preach OSAS.

So how is it that Pharaoh was saved and then lost his salvation.

 

[Shasta]

That is reiteration of God's Law. God COMMANDS all humanity to repent and place their faith in Him.

Failure to do so is universal . . . no man has the heart or will to believe God and repent of their sins, according to the Law. Romans 3:9-20

This is the first part of the Gospel message. All men are sinners and all fall short of the glory of God.

Only those who are regenerated by the grace and power of God, and gifted with faith and repentance, will manifest these fruits of obedience in their new lives.

There are multitudes sitting in churches who have never been born again by the Spirit of God, and who continue in their sins; hiding them in gross hypocrisy. Many, many counterfeit Christians who talk the talk and fake the walk.

God knows who are His, and all of them will prove to truly believe in Jesus Christ unto everlasting life. John 3:16

You posit that a person is saved before they begin to obey. However, since "God commands all men everywhere to repent." repenting and believing in Christ is itself an act of obedience to the Spirit Who leads us to Christ. The time I believed and gave my life to Christ was the first time I had really ever obeyed God. Even then I instinctively understood that He had a claim on my heart, mind and body. Faith and obedience are in actuality inseparable which is why nobody who is not doing what He says has the right to call Him Lord. This is the same thing the Apostle James was saying in his letter (James 2:20-22).

 

[Epoisses]

Go ahead, show how He died for Pharoah?

Jesus died for pharaoh, Judas and Ananias and Sapphira. Ananias and Sapphira partook of the Holy Spirit until they apostasized.

 

[meshak]

All the posts meshak leaves is identical to Russell's beliefs. Same thing.

We happen to understand the same way. It is not mystery. You can read the same way if you are open to Jesus' word.

BTW, I don't try to understand the prophesy so I cannot agree with JW in that regard.

And they are big on prophesy.

 

[TulipBee]

We happen to understand the same way. It is not mystery. You can read the same way if you are open to Jesus' word.

BTW, I don't try to understand the prophesy so I cannot agree with JW in that regard.

And they are big on prophesy.

You say you won't be one of the 144,000, ever. You agreed with that

 

[Lon]

Jesus died for pharaoh, Judas and Ananias and Sapphira. Ananias and Sapphira partook of the Holy Spirit until they apostasized.

So you are essentially an Arminian-loss-of-salvation kinda guy/gal. :think: Not a lot of you guys represented on TOL. A few cultists with the same notion though... :think:

Okay. Now I know why you disagree. Now what? :think:

 

[Epoisses]

So you are essentially an Arminian-loss-of-salvation kinda guy/gal. :think: Not a lot of you guys represented on TOL. A few cultists with the same notion though... :think:

Okay. Now I know why you disagree. Now what? :think:

Why does everyone just see Arminian/Calvinist? Lutherans believe that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world and there is also an election according to grace. Luther is still the father of the reformation and Arminians died when they elected Darby as their new ruler and Calvinists never grew up.

 

[Lon]

You posit that a person is saved before they begin to obey. However, since "God commands all men everywhere to repent." repenting and believing in Christ is itself an act of obedience to the Spirit Who leads us to Christ. The time I believed and gave my life to Christ was the first time I had really ever obeyed God. Even then I instinctively understood that He had a claim on my heart, mind and body. Faith and obedience are in actuality inseparable which is why nobody who is not doing what He says has the right to call Him Lord. This is the same thing the Apostle James was saying in his letter (James 2:20-22).

I realize that's an awkward thing. For sure, our names were written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation of the world (hence saved before we called). Think of it as more of an awkward description of a truth AND that salvation is seen as a process-started before the day we called upon the Lord. Revelation 13:8

 

[Lon]

Why does everyone just see Arminian/Calvinist? Lutherans believe that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world and there is also an election according to grace. Luther is still the father of the reformation and Arminians died when they elected Darby as their new ruler and Calvinists never grew up.

Specifically, because you believe Ananias and Sapphira were saved as new creations and then lost it. Martin Luther was of a 'sin boldly' mind, very much about Salvation being God's work wholly. If you are Lutheran, it seems a bit different than Luther himself embraced.

Paul and I believe Luther would have either believed them saved, just physically punished OR not at all.

 

[Epoisses]

Specifically, because you believe Ananias and Sapphira were saved as new creations and then lost it. Martin Luther was of a 'sin boldly' mind, very much about Salvation being God's work wholly. If you are Lutheran, it seems a bit different than Luther himself embraced.

Paul and I believe Luther would have either believed them saved, just physically punished OR not at all.

They were saved 'in Christ' along with the rest of the world. In their personal lives they were revealed to be goats because their faith was faulty. Remember Judas was hand picked by Jesus himself so goats can rise very high in the kingdom of God. To say that Jesus did not atone for some sins when the scriptures clearly state he did is heresy. Calvinism with their limited atonement is heresy.

 

[meshak]

You say you won't be one of the 144,000, ever. You agreed with that

Don't you get it? I don't follow prophesy doctrines, unless it is about good news.

Remember I claim I won't judge my salvation and 144,000 follows the same concept.

You guys are just amazing.

 

[TulipBee]

Don't you get it? I don't follow prophesy doctrines, unless it is about good news.

Remember I claim I won't judge my salvation and 144,000 follows the same concept.

You guys are just amazing.

Bluffing. We don't trust you

 

[meshak]

Bluffing. We don't trust you

I don't care if you trust me or not. What I say is the whole truth, you guys are too blind to see the simple truth.

You guys are just elitists. You are here to pretend Bible scholars without basic of Christianity.

You should give your loyalty to Jesus, not any man. You are no different from Catholics who is idolaters.

 

[meshak]

Many of you, especially Calvinists, as soon as I mention Jesus' word or teaching, you do your best to change the subject without exception.

It is because you have no idea what He teaches.

This is the reality of many churches.

 

[Eagles Wings]

Many of you, especially Calvinists, as soon as I mention Jesus' word or teaching, you do your best to change the subject without exception.

It is because you have no idea what He teaches.

This is the reality of many churches.

Most ridiculous assertion.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I don't care if you trust me or not. What I say is the whole truth, you guys are too blind to see the simple truth.

You guys are just elitists. You are here to pretend Bible scholars without basic of Christianity.

You should give your loyalty to Jesus, not any man. You are no different from Catholics who is idolaters.

Bunch of baloney.

 

[TulipBee]

I don't care if you trust me or not. What I say is the whole truth, you guys are too blind to see the simple truth.

You guys are just elitists. You are here to pretend Bible scholars without basic of Christianity.

You should give your loyalty to Jesus, not any man. You are no different from Catholics who is idolaters.

I don't care about liars at all !

 

[meshak]

Denial will not get you anywhere.

Truth hurt.

Surrender to the whole truth of Jesus' teachings, friends.

peace

 

[TulipBee]

Denial will not get you anywhere.

Truth hurt.

Surrender to the whole truth of Jesus' teachings, friends.

peace

Don't worry, Jesus saves liars cause they don't know anything

 

[meshak]

Don't worry, Jesus saves liars cause they don't know anything

hello, friend