Born Again Of The Holy Spirit

Squeaky

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Did Paul say not by works of righteousness which we have done...?

Baptism is a work of righteousness.

Matthew 3:15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."​

Are people saved by works of righteousness?

Did baptism save Jesus?

I said
I think your confusing saved with salvation. We are saved is the gift. But we are saved so that we can work out our salvation.

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)
 

Jdorman

New member
Did Paul say not by works of righteousness which we have done...?

Baptism is a work of righteousness.

Matthew 3:15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."​

Are people saved by works of righteousness?

Did baptism save Jesus?
Baptism is God's work of righteousness. It is simply part of the way He saves us.

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Ben Masada

New member
Born Again of the Holy Spirit.

Born Again of the Holy Spirit.

Born again of the Holy Spirit.

In Judaism it is called the decision of a secular Jew to return as a Baal Tshuvah. That's when one decides to set things right with HaShem so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and obedience to God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19)
 

Squeaky

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Born again of the Holy Spirit.

In Judaism it is called the decision of a secular Jew to return as a Baal Tshuvah. That's when one decides to set things right with HaShem so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and obedience to God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19)

I said
Remember Jesus was a Jew. Until He brought in a new testament and new covenant and new beliefs, and new ways.

Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
(NKJ)

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

John 10:7-9
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)
 

Jdorman

New member
*[[Tit 3:5]] Complete Jewish Bible*
"he delivered us. It was not on the ground of any righteous deeds we had done, but on the ground of his own mercy. He did it by means of the mikveh of rebirth and the renewal brought about by the Ruach HaKodesh,"

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Jdorman

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I said
What is the mikveh ?
“mikveh (miqvaot, pl.): A ritual bathing installation used by Jews to maintain ritual purity. Miqvaot were found in public settings, e.g., near the southern entrance to the Jerusalem Temple, and in private houses.”

http://ref.ly/o/hlmnbblat/757130 via the Logos Bible Android app.

The phrase "washing of regeneration" is being translated here as "mikveh of rebirth". A good number of Messianic Jews recognize that this verse refers to water baptism as well as Spirit baptism.

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Jdorman

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“mikveh (miqvaot, pl.): A ritual bathing installation used by Jews to maintain ritual purity. Miqvaot were found in public settings, e.g., near the southern entrance to the Jerusalem Temple, and in private houses.”

http://ref.ly/o/hlmnbblat/757130 via the Logos Bible Android app.

Sent from my LG-H443 using TheologyOnline mobile app
The phrase "washing of regeneration" is being translated here as "mikveh of rebirth". A good number of Messianic Jews recognize that this verse refers to water baptism as well as Spirit baptism.

Sent from my LG-H443 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
The phrase "washing of regeneration" is being translated here as "mikveh of rebirth". A good number of Messianic Jews recognize that this verse refers to water baptism as well as Spirit baptism.

OK, I realize Halloween is approaching but what in the world is a spirit baptism?

Sounds spooky to me. Do I have a ghost of a chance of getting one?
 

Jdorman

New member
OK, I realize Halloween is approaching but what in the world is a spirit baptism?

Sounds spooky to me. Do I have a ghost of a chance of getting one?




BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT
(βαπτίζω ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ, baptizō en pneumati hagiō). Refers metaphorically to the reception of the Holy Spirit.

New Testament Usage

The phrase “baptize in the Holy Spirit” (always a verbal construction) occurs only seven times in the New Testament (Mark 1:8; Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5; Acts 11:15–16; 1 Cor 12:13), though other texts may refer to the phenomenon in other ways. John the Baptist first speaks of this metaphor, contrasting his water baptism with the coming Messiah’s baptism in the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8; compare Matt 3:11 and Luke 3:16). John reports, “the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit’*” (John 1:33 NIV). While the Gospel writers each write with their own theological interests (e.g., both Matthew and Luke have the expanded “baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire”), they consistently use the metaphor to compare the Messiah’s spiritual baptizing with John the Baptist’s more literal water baptizing.

Acts
The use of the phrase in Acts is similar to its use in the Gospels. In Acts 1:5 Jesus repeats the same comparison of baptisms (John’s baptism vs. the Spirit’s baptism) prior to His ascension: “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5 NIV). The phrase “a few days” refers to the Pentecost experience recorded in Acts 2, as confirmed by the final use of the phrase in Acts 11. In Acts 11:16 Peter reports on the events at Cornelius’ house and refers to the Pentecost experience by quoting Jesus: “Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit’*” (Acts 11:16 NIV).

Paul
Paul’s only use of the metaphor refers to reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Cor 12:13 NIV). Paul refers to the believers’ common experience of conversion and connects reception of the Spirit to conversion (compare Gal 3:3; 2 Cor 1:21–22; Eph 1:13–14; Rom 8:9). Peter’s statement in Acts 11:15–16 refers back to the simpler expression “received the Holy Spirit” in the narrative of Acts 10:47. Thus, the unified usage of the metaphor “baptism in the Holy Spirit” in the Gospels and Acts fits with Paul’s use of the phrase to refer to the reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion.


Huffman, D. S., & Hausherr, J. N. (2016). Baptism of the Spirit. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.
 

Squeaky

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Salvation is by grace, not works.

Baptism saves no one, it's a work of faith.

I said
Not so. Saved is by grace. Salvation must be worked for.

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)
 

Jdorman

New member
I said
Not so. Saved is by grace. Salvation must be worked for.

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)

The Relation Between Past, Present, and Future Salvation

"Obviously, the three tenses of salvation are closely related. Future salvation will come only to those who have experienced past and present salvation in this life. Those who are saved in the present have full assurance of salvation in the future. However, a one-time past experience does not automatically guarantee future salvation. We are responsible for keeping our salvation until the end. Just as we have received past salvation through faith in Jesus, we will receive future salvation only if we continue to live by faith in Jesus. We can forfeit our present salvation and our promise of future salvation by a voluntary return to sin and unbelief. The link between past and future salvation is continuance in present salvation.

Many scriptural passages emphasize this truth. Jesus taught the absolute necessity of abiding in Him and keeping His commandments (John 15:1-14). He said, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 10:22). "Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). In this last verse, "believeth" is in the present tense, implying that continued present belief is necessary.

Likewise, Paul said the gospel of Christ is "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth… For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith" (Romans 1:16-17). Salvation will come to those who move from faith to faith, to those who continue to live by faith.

Paul also stated, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). This does not mean we can save ourselves by our own plan or earn our own salvation. Rather, it means we must consciously abide in and keep our salvation. We should view salvation with awe and respect, realizing we can lose it if we do not value it. We should be watchful of Satan's tricks and timid of doing evil.

Many other verses give similar admonitions. "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" (I Timothy 4:16). "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" (Romans 11:22). "I declare unto you the gospel… By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain" (I Corinthians 15:1-2). Many other passages teach that we can lose salvation through unbelief and disobedience. (Galatians 5:4; I Timothy 5:12; Hebrews 12:14-15; James 5:19-20; II Peter 1:10; 2:1; 2:20-21; Revelation 3:5).

In short, we have not yet received all the eternal benefits of salvation, and therefore our future salvation is still a hope. "We are saved by hope," and we have "the hope of salvation" (Romans 8:24; I Thessalonians 5:8). The hope of future salvation is more than a mere wish, however, for we have the promise and assurance of salvation if we continue to walk in the gospel. The one way to obtain eternal salvation is to find present salvation from sin in this life." (David K Bernard, The New Birth)
 

Squeaky

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I think you have mixed saved in with salvation as past and present. What your calling salvation is saved. And while saved we can fall away, fall short, be disqualified, fall from grace.
 

jamie

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For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body

At baptism the Spirit does not appear in person to baptize, he works through men and women.

Both Paul and Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before baptism illustrating that the Holy Spirit is not the result of baptism.

Baptism is for the remission of sin.
 

Jdorman

New member
At baptism the Spirit does not appear in person to baptize, he works through men and women.

Both Paul and Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before baptism illustrating that the Holy Spirit is not the result of baptism.

Baptism is for the remission of sin.
I think I agree :) It can happen in any order as long as both happen (John 3:5)

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Squeaky

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At baptism the Spirit does not appear in person to baptize, he works through men and women.

Both Paul and Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before baptism illustrating that the Holy Spirit is not the result of baptism.

Baptism is for the remission of sin.

I said
There are different ways of being baptized with the Holy Spirit. In the last days the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh.

Mark 1:8-10
8 "I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.
(NKJ)

Acts 2:17-18
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; and they shall prophesy.
(NKJ)
 
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