Bob Hill's bottom line?

elohiym

Well-known member
Knight said:
:rotfl: Your point????

I haven't seen one even semi compelling point on this topic from you or Sozo.
Last time I checked, Sozo believed that Christians still do things like commit adultery, so he and I are not describing the same sinless perfection. Okay?

You claim that God does not forgive us until we repent, yet you claim you still sin but don't have to ask God for forgiveness. You are using your one supposed act of repentance as a license to sin. That is loopy, Knight.

You say you wish you could stop sinning, but you can't, so you assume everyone is like you, unable to stop sinning. Ever heard of David or Job? David never sinned after the matter with Uriah...

1 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

You can't be like David? Why?

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

You can't be like Job? Why?

Do you think it is against God's will that you stop sinning? Obviously it isn't. Then why, if you "wish" you could stop sinning, are your prayers being unanswered?

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Do you believe that? If so, then why can't you stop sinning? :confused:

Knight said:
It's a massive flop. Seriously, if I were you I would drop it and start over.... you are a mess.
That certainly would be easier than you trying to restore me in a spirit of meekness. :chuckle:
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
elohiym said:
Yes.

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Your point?
I had to edit this recent post of yours for doing just that.

So according to your beliefs, you were not a Christian as of 3:59 PM on June 11th, 2006. Have you repented since then?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Turbo said:
I had to edit this recent post of yours for doing just that.

So according to your beliefs, you were not a Christian as of 3:59 PM on June 11th, 2006. Have you repented since then?
First, that is not what it means to take the Lords's name in vain. To take the Lord's name in vain means to claim you are saved while you continue in sin. :doh:

Second, if you recall, I omitted that word from the title of the thread, which I was authoring, but did not omit it from the author I was quoting, because that is what the author wrote.

The fact that you deleted it, and you believed that it was taking the Lord's name in vain :)rolleyes: ), only proves that you are a legalist. :chuckle:

Way to go, Turbo! :thumb:
 

Spitfire

New member
elohiym said:
The fact that you deleted it, and you believed that it was taking the Lord's name in vain :)rolleyes: ), only proves that you are a legalist. :chuckle:
So let me get this straight: if you oppose the profane use of God's name, you are a legalist... and that is a bad, bad thing? If A=B and B=C then someone who is careful not to misuse God's name = not a "True Christian?"
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Spitfire said:
So let me get this straight: if you oppose the profane use of God's name, you are a legalist...
No. I oppose the profane use of God's name, and I am not a legalist. Turbo's point was legalistic. I supposedly profaned God's name by leaving the word G-damn in an author's work when I quoted it. You apparently missed the point.
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
elohiym said:
Second, if you recall, I omitted that word from the title of the thread, which I was authoring,
Why? If it's not taking the Lord's name in vain, why did you omit it from the title?
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
elohiym accuses Christians who admit that they still sin of being unrepentant. Yet when he is caught sinning, he denies that he has sinned and is therefore unrepentant.
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
elohiym said:
No. I oppose the profane use of God's name...
Why?

And if you oppose the profane use of God's name, why did you repeat someone else's profane use of it without censoring it?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Turbo said:
Why? If it's not taking the Lord's name in vain, why did you omit it from the title?
It's not taking the Lord's name in vain, because taking the Lord's name in vain has a specific meaning in the Bible, one you are evidently unfamiliar with.

I omitted it from the title because I don't like to write or G-damn for no G-damn reason, as the author did. However, I respect other people's right to freely express themselves with words, whether that is to call me names, or to say a movie is G-damn scary.

So why do you still sin, yet claim to be a Christian? That is taking the Lord's name in vain.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Turbo said:
elohiym accuses Christians who admit that they still sin of being unrepentant. Yet when he is caught sinning, he denies that he has sinned and is therefore unrepentant.
I wasn't "caught" sinning, legalist. I was quoting someone that said G-damn. :chuckle:
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
elohiym said:
It's not taking the Lord's name in vain, because taking the Lord's name in vain has a specific meaning in the Bible, one you are evidently unfamiliar with.
You have yet to establish this claimed narrow definition.

I omitted it from the title because I don't like to write or G-damn for no G-damn reason, as the author did.
Is this supposed to be cute or witty or something? You claimed just minutes ago that you "oppose the profane use of God's name." Yet here you are doing just that, and this time you can't hide behind the excuse that you are quoting someone else. Do you think that replacing two letters with a dash somehow makes it excusable? (And you're calling me a legalist?) The word that your heart is expressing is obvious to anyone reading your post.

Implied profanity is a bannable offense at TOL. Were you aware of this? :think:
However, I respect other people's right to freely express themselves with words, whether that is to call me names, or to say a movie is G-damn scary.
You would have considered it disrespectful to censor the profanity from that article?:down:

Apparently you do not respect the rules of TOL, which forbid profanity and implied profanity.

So why do you still sin, yet claim to be a Christian?
I'm in good company, for Paul also wrote that Christians are still capable of committing sin (even while we are saved from their sin).

As Paul wrote to members of the Body of Christ:

1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

That is taking the Lord's name in vain.
Again, you have yet to establish that claim.
 

jeremiah

BANNED
Banned
Turbo said:
They are both self-proclaimed "former Christians" who maintain that the "correct" interpretation of the Bible is the Calvinist one. In other words, they "concluded that the Bible defined Salvation by the election of God, and then examined the qualities of the elect, and concluded that [they are] of the unelect." In fact, just about every "former Christian" I encounter had a Calvinistic understanding of the God of the Bible, which contributed to their rejection of Him, since such a God would ultimately be the cause of all wickedness.

That is a very interesting observation, but while they were Christians and Calvinists, they had to be more sure of their salvation than any other person who believes in eternal security.
My point was that the person who is mocking Bob Hill, at leasts admits that the person has some role in his own salvation. He reads the bible and decides that it is describing him as one of the saved people.
In Calvinism even that personal analysis is both unnecessary and in fact "heretical".

If this person really wants to mock easy believism, he needs to focus on the irresistable grace and perseverance of the saints, in the TULIP!

The foremost doctrine of the Bible is the existence of God. Simple and straightforward as any doctrine! If allsmiles and granite can not discern that, or retain that from their former Christianity, why should we care that they "think", that the Bible teaches Calvinistic Salvation. A complex and convoluted, and I might add, unbiblical doctrine.
No my friend, I am still looking for a person who believes that there is a God of the Bible, and that He elected some to salvation and they believe they are one of the unelect.
I know it may be as difficult as the proverbial search for "an honest man", but I am still looking.
Personally if I could be convinced that Calvinism was correct, I think that I would have to conclude that I was one of the unelect. Afterall, at least one person has to be, if not millions, otherwise the term, "the elect". sort of loses its punch. :chuckle:
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
Billwald,

said
Bob Hill's bottom line is that anyone who reads the Bible and concludes that the description of "saved" applies to himself is "saved?"

That is totally untrue.

I know I am saved because I did what God told me to do, believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins. You know the verses. In Philippi Paul and Silas were in prison. After the earthquake, the jailer asked what he had to do to be saved. In Acts 16:31, “they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.’” I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior in 1951, and I got saved. I also had total change in my life because of that decision.

I find in Rom 4:4-5 the basis for the righteousness that God imputed to me: “Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness”. I believed on Him.

Understanding that I could not be justified by any works, I believed in Christ Jesus so I could be justified by His faithfulness in going to the cross and paying for my sin. Gal 2:16 “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

One more passage emphasizes the lack of any works on my part. I have been saved by God’s laver of regeneration because I believed He died for me. Tit 3:5-6 “not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior”.

I also know I won’t lose my salvation because, God made our salvation sure by predestinating us believers. Eph 1:4,5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.

My adoption is absolute. Not only do I stand before Him holy and blameless, but I’ll stand before Him as His adopted son. I believe predestination has to do with our adoption, not our salvation.

When we were bought as slaves from the slave market of sin, we were redeemed by the blood of Christ. That’s the redemption God did for us. 1 Co 6:19,20 “Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.” I praise God for my wonderful redemption. I hope you have trusted Christ as your Savior, too.

My adoption has to do with my future standing. Rom 8:23 “Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.” We were made sons with a future and with a future entitlement.

According to Ramsay, under Greek law in the ancient world, adoption had to do with inheritance. We now have the spirit of adoption, the Holy Spirit, as the guarantee. But we are waiting for the glorious event itself when we receive our inheritance according to Rom 8:15,23.
Rom 8:15,23 “For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, ‘Abba, Father.’ 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.”

This adoption is connected with the future “glory which will be revealed”.
Rom 8:18,19 “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.”

I believe that is, the “glorious liberty of the sons of God,” when we experience “the redemption of our body.”
Rom 8:21,23 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

For us in this dispensation, the redemption of our body will take place at the rapture.
Eph 1:14; 4:30 “who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” 4:30 “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

Now, I have the security and grace of His predestination.
Eph 1:6,7 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

My inheritance is assured by God’s predestination. This is according to His purpose who works the body of Christ, the all things, according to His will. He did this because I first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works the all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

We have two inheritances. One is predestined. We can’t lose it. The other is conditional. We can lose it. We already have our inheritance in Christ because God predestined it. But our other inheritance depends on our actions here.
Col 3:23-25 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

Once more, I know I am going to heaven because I have God’s guarantee in Eph 1:13,14.
Eph 1:13,14 “In whom you also, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
I also want to add this. Just because a person says he believes that Christ died for him, does not mean that he really believed that. God knows the heart. It is true that all we have to do to be saved is put our trust in Christ as our Savior. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" is adequate, but it must be real, and only the one believing and God really know if that person really believes.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

billwald

New member
>Are you saved?

I quit worrying about it. I trust the creator of the universe to do what is right. I accept the ecumenical creeds as representing the saving truth in the Bible. I am "working out my salvation" as described in 1 John.
 

CRASH

TOL Subscriber
elohiym said:
It's not taking the Lord's name in vain, because taking the Lord's name in vain has a specific meaning in the Bible, one you are evidently unfamiliar with.

I omitted it from the title because I don't like to write or G-damn for no G-damn reason, as the author did. However, I respect other people's right to freely express themselves with words, whether that is to call me names, or to say a movie is G-damn scary.

So why do you still sin, yet claim to be a Christian? That is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Your thinking is broken. You should repent for this post. It is offensive to me and more importantly our Lord and God.

It is sin for which you should repent. Blasphemous!
 

Poly

Blessed beyond measure
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
CRASH said:
Your thinking is broken. You should repent for this post. It is offensive to me and more importantly our Lord and God.

It is sin for which you should repent. Blasphemous!

Don't get your hopes too high. elohiym gets to sin all he wants and if you are offended by his sin, he can simply call you a legalist. Wow, talk about convenient.

You are a disgrace elohiym. You don't have the respect for the Lord, teenagers, women and other Christians who are offended at having to see God's name used in such a way. And if that weren't bad enough, you try to make it seem as if there is something wrong with those offended who simply have a desire to see Him respected in the way He should be. Shame on you! :down:
 

Evoken

New member
elohiym said:
So why do you still sin, yet claim to be a Christian? That is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Au contraire!

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
(1 John 1.8-10)
 
Last edited:
Top