Attention moral relativists... (HOF thread)

[cirisme]

Are you also saying that Christians decide things on majority vote?

Hey! That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

How do the Christians determine that some alien entity is making the decision for them and not just their own subconscious minds?

If you're refering to anyone who claims the name of Christian, you don't.

As a whole, indicates that there are some who do not do so. How does "the whole" determine who those "someones" are who are not listening?

I think Goose is refering to the whole of true Christians and not just those that claim the name.

How can the "the whole" be certain that the "someones" aren't correct and the majority are wrong?

Huh?!?

 

[Zakath]

Cirisme,

In my attempt at literary parallelism, it appears that I lost a bit of clarity. Permit me to try again on my final question...

How do the majority of Chrisitians ("the whole") determine whether the minority (the "someones") is or is not correct in a particular circumstance?

 

[cirisme]

In my attempt at literary parallelism, it appears that I lost a bit of clarity. Permit me to try again on my final question...

Sure.

How do the majority of Chrisitians ("the whole") determine whether the minority (the "someones") is or is not correct in a particular circumstance?

The question is flawed to begin with. A Christian is someone with the Holy Spirit("the whole"), He leads us, we follow. If someone doesn't have the Holy Spirit, he cannot be a Christian.(the "someones") It is blatantly obvious to those with the Spirit who is a fraud, but because the world doesn't have the Spirit, the world can't discern the difference.

God bless you,
-AJ

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by cirisme
The question is flawed to begin with. A Christian is someone with the Holy Spirit("the whole"), He leads us, we follow. If someone doesn't have the Holy Spirit, he cannot be a Christian.(the "someones") It is blatantly obvious to those with the Spirit who is a fraud, but because the world doesn't have the Spirit, the world can't discern the difference.

You still are not understanding my question. It was originally for goose, not you. ..

My question is based on goose's use of the term "Chrstians, as a whole". That qualifier (or alternatively "on the whole") indicates that there are some in that classification that do not follow the majority. While your interpretation of goose's meaning may be correct, I'd still like to read goose clarify his own meaning.

Thanks.

 

[Goose]

"Christians, as a whole..." meant true Christians in the Body of Christ. I'm talking about Christians. Not the people who just say they are.

 

[Zakath]

Thank you for the clarification.

So it is then your contention, that all Christians would agree on every major point of doctrine, since they were all hearing from the same "mind"?

 

[Goose]

Like I said before, Christians don't know everything. Not even the Son of God knows everything. We have the mind of Christ. Even the apostles had doctrinal debates. The mind of Christ is for wisdom. It's something that a Christian matures with. It's not something that is zapped into them when they except Jesus as their Savior.

 

[Zakath]

But isn't it your claim that Jesus is co-equal with the Father? If so, how can he not be equal in knowledge.

Or is more "open view" revisionism where he just equal in some things and not others...

Regarding your "mind of Christ" theory. It sounds pretty darned inefficient to me. Your deity apparently isn't powerful enough to ensure that all his followers have the necessary info they need to be correct about doctrine.

... or his followers have misperceived what's really going on...

 

[Goose]

Originally posted by Zakath
But isn't it your claim that Jesus is co-equal with the Father? If so, how can he not be equal in knowledge.

Or is more "open view" revisionism where he just equal in some things and not others...

Regarding your "mind of Christ" theory. It sounds pretty darned inefficient to me. Your deity apparently isn't powerful enough to ensure that all his followers have the necessary info they need to be correct about doctrine.

... or his followers have misperceived what's really going on...

Uhm....You're an atheist skeptic, who doesn't even know if he absolutely exists. Where's the point where things would suddently become "clear" to you so that you could understand Zakath? I don't know everything. Why do you keep beating me up for not knowing everything? Don't you understand that I have faith? That even YOU have faith? I'm quoting from the Word of God. I have verses of the Deity of Christ. It's actually quite interesting, and even get's into the hebraic relationship between father and son. Take it as you will. Do your own research, Oh ye of little faith.

 

[admiral_d]

Originally posted by Goose
Uhm....You're an atheist skeptic, who doesn't even know if he absolutely exists. Where's the point where things would suddently become "clear" to you so that you could understand Zakath? I don't know everything. Why do you keep beating me up for not knowing everything?

Because you have "the mind of Christ" , remember? Everything that you say is from Christ....remember? <shudder>

Don't you understand that I have faith? That even YOU have faith? I'm quoting from the Word of God. I have verses of the Deity of Christ. It's actually quite interesting, and even get's into the hebraic relationship between father and son. Take it as you will. Do your own research, Oh ye of little faith.

Goading someone into the faith is neither productive, nor convincing some of the faith, Goose....Try another route....

 

[Goose]

Originally posted by admiral_d


Because you have "the mind of Christ" , remember? Everything that you say is from Christ....remember? <shudder>

I replied the same to Zakath. ONLY God knows certain things, not even the Son of God. Quit beating a Christian up and defend your faith. One day, you might be the only one left, and you'll think back on how it would have been nice to have a little fellowship.

Goading someone into the faith is neither productive, nor convincing some of the faith, Goose....Try another route....

Everyone has faith. Everyone doesn't have the Faith.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Goose
Uhm....You're an atheist skeptic, who doesn't even know if he absolutely exists. Where's the point where things would suddently become "clear" to you so that you could understand Zakath?

I don't know, but I'm certain you haven't demonstrated it yet, goose.

I don't know everything. Why do you keep beating me up for not knowing everything?

Because you made some pretty bold assertions, even claiming to have the mind of a god. That's allegedly pretty significant wisdom. I'd like to see you demonstrate some little portion of it...

Don't you understand that I have faith? That even YOU have faith?

So? I believe I will survive the night to debate with Knight tomorrow. That's faith. What's your point?

I'm quoting from the Word of God.

What you're quoting is a translation of a language you cannot read. The translations are from multiple copies of a set of documents which do not exist and have not likely existed for almost twenty centuries. Hardly convincingly authoritative in my view.

I have verses of the Deity of Christ. It's actually quite interesting, and even get's into the hebraic relationship between father and son. Take it as you will. Do your own research, Oh ye of little faith.

Been there, done that. It's far from conclusive. If you want to understand the hebrew, go talk to a Jewish scholar, not a Christian one. But only if you think your "faith" is strong enough to handle it...

 

[Goose]

Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

It's people like you, Zakath, who defile this image. Am I perfect? No, that's because I'm a sinner, like you. But, I have accepted that atonement for sin, Jesus Christ. I'm different than you Zakath, in that I've been seperated for holiness.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Goose
It's people like you, Zakath, who defile this image.

Oooh, now my very existence defiles creation! Wow, I must be moving up in the world.

Am I perfect? No...

Boy, you said it, brother!

But, I have accepted that atonement for sin, Jesus Christ.

How nice for you. So you gain relationship with your deity by taking advantage of another butchery by YHWH, this time of his own son.

I'm different than you Zakath, in that I've been seperated for holiness.

Yes we're very different in several ways, goose.

• I'm a cynical middle-aged man and you're a gullible young man.
  
  I've sat where you are quite a while before you were born. Been there, done that. You have yet to do hardly any of it.
  
  I've raised four youngsters to adulthood and have two serving in the armed forces protecting the rights of people like you.
  
  I've studied the a variety of human religious expressons for longer than you've been alive.
  
  I've spend decades counseling the victims of various sorts of religious brainwashing, clergy child abuse, and people crushed by manipulative religious leaders.
  
  I've worked "crusades", "revivals", "healing meetings", raised money for chuches, missions, and missionaries.
  
  I've founded two churches, started a Christian school and a counseling center.

Those are a few of the ways we're different, goose. And there's one other...

If washing yourself in the blood of human sacrifices is what it takes to please your deity goose, count me out.

 

[admiral_d]

Originally posted by Zakath

Oooh, now my very existence defiles creation! Wow, I must be moving up in the world.

Boy, you said it, brother!

How nice for you. So you gain relationship with your deity by taking advantage of another butchery by YHWH, this time of his own son.

Yes we're very different in several ways, goose.

• I'm a cynical middle-aged man and you're a gullible young man.
  
  I've sat where you are quite a while before you were born. Been there, done that. You have yet to do hardly any of it.
  
  I've raised four youngsters to adulthood and have two serving in the armed forces protecting the rights of people like you.
  
  I've studied the a variety of human religious expressons for longer than you've been alive.
  
  I've spend decades counseling the victims of various sorts of religious brainwashing, clergy child abuse, and people crushed by manipulative religious leaders.
  
  I've worked "crusades", "revivals", "healing meetings", raised money for chuches, missions, and missionaries.
  
  I've founded two churches, started a Christian school and a counseling center.

Those are a few of the ways we're different, goose. And there's one other...

If washing yourself in the blood of human sacrifices is what it takes to please your deity goose, count me out.

And you say that ... I... need to be easy on him!!!!

 

[Goose]

He's regressing and trying to justify himself and his past. He's like an abusive father, who made some wrong choices in life, and just needs to state his case. Although, the case is closed already. Zakath, is found guilty, on all counts, with no hope. Unless he repents of his un-belief, and except the Lord as his savior.

 

[admiral_d]

Originally posted by Goose
He's regressing and trying to justify himself and his past. He's like an abusive father, who made some wrong choices in life, and just needs to state his case. Although, the case is closed already. Zakath, is found guilty, on all counts, with no hope. Unless he repents of his un-belief, and except the Lord as his savior.

"an abusive father"

You know, that sort of slander can get you into a lawsuit, rather quickly and you could be paying for that for a long time....

That child of your in your pictures may not have a very good home due to your mouth.....

Listen to me son, and learn wisdom, the knowing when to open your mouth and when to keep it shut.....

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by admiral_d


"an abusive father"

You know, that sort of slander can get you into a lawsuit, rather quickly and you could be paying for that for a long time....

That child of your in your pictures may not have a very good home due to your mouth.....

Listen to me son, and learn wisdom, the knowing when to open your mouth and when to keep it shut.....

Admiral...... Goose said...."He's like an abusive father", he didn't say "he is an abusive father"! It helps to read the posts completely before you accuse someone of something they didn't say. Fair enough?

 

[admiral_d]

Originally posted by Knight
Admiral...... Goose said...."He's like an abusive father", he didn't say "he is an abusive father"! It helps to read the posts completely before you accuse someone of something they didn't say. Fair enough?

Speaking as a former moderator myself, I know where of I am speaking...Tell your moderator to reign in his comments as that last one is slanderous and can be used in a liable suit...and can shut down this board for lack of funds....

Of course, it IS your board....do with it as you will...but don't say that I didn't warn you....

At least talk to him.....

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Admiral, your an embarrassment to yourself.