ECT Article gets "the mystery" wrong

serpentdove

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The mysteries kept secret since the foundation of the world were first preached by Christ Jesus, not Paul.

(Matt 13:35 KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

It was a divinely revealed message of Jesus.

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began [Rom. 16:25].

"“The mystery” means that it had not been revealed in the Old Testament. It refers to the present age when God is taking both Jew and Gentile and fashioning them into one body, the church." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 4, p. 758). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 

Danoh

New member
It was a divinely revealed message of Jesus.

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began [Rom. 16:25].

"“The mystery” means that it had not been revealed in the Old Testament. It refers to the present age when God is taking both Jew and Gentile and fashioning them into one body, the church." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 4, p. 758). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Lol, you actually got a part of that how some here perceive it.
 

serpentdove

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...[V]iew that some gifts are still operative
Desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy (1 Co 14:1).

...nderstanding of what John the Baptist meant as to the Lamb of God.

A strange thing to say to a man (Jn 1:29). :plain:

John the Baptist is a type of Eve (e.g. God did not have to re-breathe life into her [Ge 2:7]). Both had the Holy Spirit prior to her being made. Oneness--a mystery. :straight: Ge 2:7, Eph 5:31-32

:sherlock: Genesis 1:26-27. Then God (Elohim) said, “Let us make humankind (H: ha-’adham; G: ton anthropon [anthropos]) in our image (H: be zelem-nu, G: kat’eikona [eikon]) according to our likeness (G: kath’homoiosin); and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” So God created humankind (H: ha-’adham; G: ton anthropon) in [God’s] image, in the image of God (G: kat’ eikona theou) [God] created them; male and female (H: zakar we-neqebah; G: arsen kai thelu) [God] created them." Full text: Some Key Terms and Passages in Gen. 1-3
 

serpentdove

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Lol, you actually got a part of that how some here perceive it.
:thumb:

Ro 16:25 "...t refers to something hidden in former times but now made known (1 Cor. 4:1; Eph. 5:32; 6:19; Col. 1:25, 26; 2 Thess. 2:7, 8; 1 Tim. 3:9, 16). The NT’s most common mystery is that God would provide salvation for Gentiles as well as Jews (Eph. 3:3–9)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1725). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Men have always been saved the same way--by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).
nope

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
 

Danoh

New member
:thumb:

Ro 16:25 "...t refers to something hidden in former times but now made known (1 Cor. 4:1; Eph. 5:32; 6:19; Col. 1:25, 26; 2 Thess. 2:7, 8; 1 Tim. 3:9, 16). The NT’s most common mystery is that God would provide salvation for Gentiles as well as Jews (Eph. 3:3–9)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1725). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.



I was not agreeing with you, as my own understanding on that differs.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
I was not agreeing with you, as my own understanding on that differs.


MacArthur doesn't have high-res. There is no chance at all that the salvation of the nations was a hidden message. Zip. It is the paramount message of the Bible from the earliest moment of evil's arrival. It is found all through the Psalms and Prophets.

The 'mystery' that no longer is a mystery was how this would happen. To use a familiar contrast of Paul (which he used! Imagine that!), it was salvation through faith, not the Law; or through the Gospel, not the Law. That is where Judaism was stuck.

Judaism we learn, had replaced the Promise with the Law, Gal 3:17. It had voided the Promise. That made the Gospel a 'mystery' to them--those in Judaism.
 

serpentdove

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[Men have always been saved the same way--by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).] "[N]ope. Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah..."

:dizzy: "By faith Noah...(Heb 11:7)...By faith Abraham...(Heb 11:8)...By faith Isaac...(Heb 11:20)...By faith Jacob...(Heb 11:21)...By faith Joseph (Heb 11:22)...By faith Moses...(Heb 11:23)...By faith Rahab (Heb 11:31)...And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith (Heb 11:32)..."
 

Danoh

New member
How do you see it?

First off, it reads as if it had been an afterthought on Paul's part. He ends with this...

Rom. 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

But then adds this...

Rom. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Anyway, that is another topic. In verse 25 he writes "Now to him who is of power to stablish you according to my gospel..."

In other words, in line with "that gospel that I preach among the Gentiles" Gal. 2:2.

There is a lot there also, but lets move on for now.

He uses the phrase "is of power to stablish you according to my gospel..."

One key is in the word "stablish."

Another is in the phrase "according to my gospel."

This gospel that Paul preached among the Gentiles was not mere words.

Its words contained power within them.

Not only the power to "save them that believe" said words - 1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

And that right there - how that works - is also a great study in itself.

But also, this gospel that Paul preached among the Gentiles had the power to stablish the Believer.

I say had, but I also mean has, by the way.

What's this about "stablish"? And how does that work?

Paul has already mentioned these two aspects in Romans - its salvation aspect, for example, prior to and into Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

And its stablising aspect in Romans 5:2 going forward...

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Which is where he begins to lay out various aspects of living out the Christian life and how to rely on the teaching for that.

He does the same, for example, in...

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

How did you receive Him? By faith.

How are you to walk in Him? By faith.

Towards what end, and on what basis? That you end up ...

2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

In Col. 2:7, the phrase "Rooted and built up in him" is the same as "stablished in the faith."

As when Scripture reads "God and our Father," Gal. 4:1. He is both to us.

God is "of power to stablish" the Believer how? "According to" Paul's "my gospel."

It is not only able to save one who Believes, but is also able to work in him to conform him to the image of His Son.

It is able to this because that is the power God predetermined it would be able to do, because this is what God predetermined as to how He would one day bring this about in those who trusted His Son....

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Here all that is again...

1Thess. 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Notice the result that is able to result in, in the Believer...

1Thess. 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

See that, it stablished them in the faith such that they were enabled by that stablishing to endure persecutions.

This is Romans 5 teaching...

Rom. 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

And not only is that not even a mere a glimpse of all this "grace that is in Christ Jesus" but, we also haven't even gotten into what all else Paul is talking about there, at the end of Romans 16, yet.

Til then study these things out that you might...

2Tim. 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

Lol - not the "my son" part, that was Timothy, in that case.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
I used to listen to his circus some years back. Anytime he opened the mike to live calls and a Dispy who actually knew his Bible, Hank would turn into a jello of "well, perhaps" and "we don't know," and "well, the Scholars..."

A few moments after that it was always 'hey; what happened to the Dispy who was dusting him a minute ago."

There's your real punk, JohnW. At least Tet, hangs in there - by a very, narrow thread, but he does hang in there, the pesky fellow, lol

How many times did he say "wooden literal fashion"?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
:dizzy: "By faith Noah...(Heb 11:7)...By faith Abraham...(Heb 11:8)...By faith Isaac...(Heb 11:20)...By faith Jacob...(Heb 11:21)...By faith Joseph (Heb 11:22)...By faith Moses...(Heb 11:23)...By faith Rahab (Heb 11:31)...And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith (Heb 11:32)..."
It does not say Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

:wazzup:
 

serpentdove

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"He uses the phrase "is of power to stablish you according to my gospel...One key is in the word "stablish"...This gospel that Paul preached among the Gentiles was not mere words. Its words contained power within them."

στηρίξαι (strengthen, establish in place)

Not sure what you mean by power within words. I hope you are not a supporter of Copeland, for example--a daughter harlot
mousy.gif
who pledges allegiance to that Great Mother Whore, Rome. :eek:linger: Re 17:5 I'd be standing far from
lips.gif
her :granite: as she will be judged soon. :popcorn:

If you are a word faith guy, please let us know--you'll go on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list).

See:

Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?
 

Danoh

New member
στηρίξαι (strengthen, establish in place)

Not sure what you mean by power within words. I hope you are not a supporter of Copeland, for example--a daughter harlot
mousy.gif
who pledges allegiance to that Great Mother Whore, Rome. :eek:linger: Re 17:5 I'd be standing far from
lips.gif
her :granite: as she will be judged soon. :popcorn:

If you are a word faith guy, please let us know--you'll go on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list).

See:

Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?


Lol; being that I am Cessationist, that's a good one.

Reread this passage...

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

I'd like you to consider taking the following in the spirit, or attitude of...

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

That is the heart attitude in which I say the following to you...

Consider putting the writings of men away for a while...they each contain one confusion or another.

What Paul is saying is that the word of truth he was preaching - the gospel of our salvation - has God's power in it.

To do what? To save them that believe said word.

What else?

To ground them in a solid understanding in the various details of how the Christain life works.

The best to you in this.

You appear to be relying to much on a mix of preaching you have heard that made sense to you, on books you have read that made sense to you, and on what you concluded/conclude one passage or another was/is talking about.

You did that with the passages I posted, thus; your concern.

Which, by the way; I do appreciate.
 
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