ARGH!!! Calvinism makes me furious!!!

[Nathon Detroit]

Bum bada buuuuum. SS to the rescue!!

There is no contradiction!

Bum bada buuuuuum.


No contradiction from here, sir.

Up, up, and away!

Thank you for the unbiased affirmation! :up:

Z Man, SS is not an open theist. In fact, he has some very strong objections to me, TOL and Open Theism in general.

I don't want to speak for him but I would guess he sits more on your side of the fence than he does mine (at least on this specific issue). Yet even he does not see a contradiction in my position, is it possible you jumped to a conclusion that wasn't there?

 

[Delmar]

I am here for you, good sir Knight.



Bum bada buuuuum. SS to the rescue!!

There is no contradiction!

Bum bada buuuuuum.


No contradiction from here, sir.

Up, up, and away!

Your intro would have a more dramatic effect if you included the musical notes .

 

[Delmar]

Who controls the weather in your mind? :dizzy:

In my mind, God, pretty much, set the physical universe in motion and let it run on the power he put into the system when he created it. I suppose you could make the argument that when He caused Noah's flood God was able to see how that changed the weather patterns on Earth from that point on. Looking at the issue from that angle I can see how one assert, for example, that God caused Hurricane Katrina and every other storm.
Having said that, it is not Gods fault that people chose to build a city below sea level or that wicked local city planners, for political gain, got in the way of the federal governments desire to build an extra sea wall around New Orleans.

 

[sentientsynth]

Your intro would have a more dramatic effect if you included the musical notes .

I did my best.


Ta-DAaaaaaa

 

[Z Man]

Deardelmar,

Now, since you believe God controls the weather SOME of the time, are you willing to provide evidence that may suggest to us who is in charge of it when God is 'out for lunch'?

Sure thing, Just as soon as you provide evidence that the Bible says, or at least in some form implies, that the weather needs constant control.

Already have. I posted Scriptures that start from Genesis and end up in the New Testament, that show God controlling the weather. And I definitely did not post ALL of them... there are too many.

Anyways, we see that God controls the weather in Genesis, Leviticus, Samuel, Chronicles, all the way up to when Jesus Himself commands the wind and waves. Now normal people use their brains and realize, "Hey, God is constantly controlling the weather throughout the Bible", and safely conclude that He is still constantly controlling the weather. Do you deardelmar, have a problem using your brain to figure this out on your own, or do I need to continuously waste posts by teaching you what the Bible says? Are you smart enough to put 2 and 2 together?

:think:

 

[Z Man]

He doesn't have to!

It is you who asserts that if God causes ONE, God must cause ALL.

That's never been my position, and you know that, since I've said it a gazillion times already.

God causes all catastrophes in the Bible, therefore He causes them all.

Here is essentially what you are asking Delmar....

Now, since you believe Knight caused a traffic accident last Thursday, are you willing to provide evidence that may suggest to us Knight doesn't cause ALL traffic accidents????

Your argument falls flat. It's silly, bizarre and irrational. (Hilston if your reading this maybe you could help me with some new adjectives).

That's a retarded analogy. First of all, you can't compare yourself to God. God is not a human; He's not limited to one place at one time. He's everywhere. Secondly, as stated above, my position has never been that God caused one event, therefore He must cause them all. I'm really asking Delmar:

If the Scriptures tell us that God controls the weather in every instance, what proof do you have that suggests otherwise?

Because I generally tend to believe what the Bible says. Don't you?

Excellent!

Now... please show me in the Bible where God says He causes ALL storms without exception?

That is the type of evidence you will need to make your case.

I've already posted several passages of Scripture that shows us God controlling the weather, from Genesis to the New Testament (and I didn't even post a tenth of what's really in the Bible). The Bible shows us that God controls the weather. If you don't believe that,

THE BURDEN OF PROOF LIES IN YOUR HANDS!​

You need to provide evidence that suggests He doesn't control the weather in order to disaprove the fact that He does. I've supported my argument with valid Scriptures, but you, or any other Open Theists, have yet provided any sort of proof other than your worthless say-so.

 

[Z Man]

Zman is either stupid or stubborn. Knight is making a simple case that is understandable at an elementary level. Zman is the king of logical fallacy on this subject and distorts the whole teaching of God for proof texting. :bang: :bang:

Zman is a case study in the power of a preconceived theology to blind one to simple truth and logic.

Blah blah blah... :blabla:

Where's your proof? I've presented my case with valid Scriptural proof (and lots of it, not just one or two verses) that God is the primary cause behind catastrophes. If you disagree, post Scriptures that will keep me from concluding that God causes all catastrophes. Don't just come up here and say Z Man is stupid. That really doesn't help you out much.

 

[Z Man]

Thank you for the unbiased affirmation! :up:

Z Man, SS is not an open theist. In fact, he has some very strong objections to me, TOL and Open Theism in general.

I don't want to speak for him but I would guess he sits more on your side of the fence than he does mine (at least on this specific issue). Yet even he does not see a contradiction in my position, is it possible you jumped to a conclusion that wasn't there?

Grow up Knight.

Your previous position was contridictory. You said God caused the storm that made a worldwide flood, but not a storm that caused a city-wide flood. That's contridictory.

Now you've changed your position. We haven't been debating floods - we've been debating weather in general. So you can't say I'm misrepresenting your position if that position isn't even the one we've been discussing.

Doesn't take a kindergartner to figure that one out...

 

[godrulz]

Blah blah blah... :blabla:

Where's your proof? I've presented my case with valid Scriptural proof (and lots of it, not just one or two verses) that God is the primary cause behind catastrophes. If you disagree, post Scriptures that will keep me from concluding that God causes all catastrophes. Don't just come up here and say Z Man is stupid. That really doesn't help you out much.

The Bible selectively records God's miraculous intervention at times. This does not mean He intervenes at all times. If you believed this, you would never go to a doctor for surgery or take a medicine. The Bible records God's control over the weather, but there is no biblical or logical reason to extrapolate this to mean that He meticulously controls every weather situation. Science, apart from God, can explain weather. We know God created the earth and sun leading to the possibility of weather patterns through nature apart from supernatural micromanagement. Your hyper-sovereignty view is a filter that is affecting your exegesis and common sense. Man can altar the weather by cloud seeding, etc. Does this mean that God is causing man to do this, or are some things inherent in the type of creation God sovereignly chose? Is God not wise and powerful enough to create a world that is designed to function without ongoing direct intervention? I can eat and procreate due to God-given self-determination and free will. I do not need supernatural intervention to digest and eliminate or procreate. God made this ultimately possible, but that does not mean He directly makes my kidneys respond to supernatural intervention. Creation is impossible without the Creator, but it is a most excellent creation that functions by design, not divine command in every detail.

 

[godrulz]

Grow up Knight.

Your previous position was contridictory. You said God caused the storm that made a worldwide flood, but not a storm that caused a city-wide flood. That's contridictory.

Now you've changed your position. We haven't been debating floods - we've been debating weather in general. So you can't say I'm misrepresenting your position if that position isn't even the one we've been discussing.

Doesn't take a kindergartner to figure that one out...

If the Bible says God caused a flood, we believe it. If the Bible revealed that God caused a local flood, we believe it. You cannot argue from silence and then say that a low land city without adequate dams or manmade protection is flooded by God. A hurricane due to scientific weather patterns (initially made possible by God without requiring direct intervention) is not necessarily the hand of God. It may or may not be. Unless Scripture or prophetic revelation reveals that a particular storm is divine, then you must recognize the possibility of demonic (Jesus rebuked spirits behind some vs all storms...He was also Lord of nature and could command a natural storm supernaturally, though He did not always do so...) or natural causes. You are creating a false dichotomy assuming there is only one possible explanation of weather.

Just as the 'supernatural' can be divine, demonic, or 'natural' (not supernatural explanation, but illusion, etc.), so weather can be divine, demonic, or merely nature. We need discernment, not simplistic proof texting arguing from specific revelation to general principle without warrant.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Your previous position was contradictory. You said God caused the storm that made a worldwide flood, but not a storm that caused a city-wide flood. That's contradictory.

How is that contradictory????

On the bright side, at least this time you stated my position more accurately.

Z Man what is contradictory about asserting that God could cause THE flood (in Genesis) but not necessarily cause all floods i.e., Katrina?

There is NOT one single thing about that assertion that is contradictory! Even your own sympathizers (no offense SS) agree!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I told Z Man... "It is you who asserts that if God causes ONE, God must cause ALL."

And Z Man responds with...

That's never been my position, and you know that, since I've said it a gazillion times already.

God causes all catastrophes in the Bible, therefore He causes them all.

In the words of Tommy Boy... "Holy Schnikeys!"

It is very likely Z Man you are the most bizarre, irrational TOL member ever to set foot on this forum.

 

[Lighthouse]

I told Z Man... "It is you who asserts that if God causes ONE, God must cause ALL."

And Z Man responds with...In the words of Tommy Boy... "Holy Schnikeys!"

It is very likely Z Man you are the most bizarre, irrational TOL member ever to set foot on this forum.

Hes' definitely giving Freak a run for his money.

On a side note, I just pictured Simon Cowell quoting Tommy Boy.:crackup:

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Z Man,

I'm still waiting for a response to post 2458.

Thanks

 

[godrulz]

I told Z Man... "It is you who asserts that if God causes ONE, God must cause ALL."

And Z Man responds with...In the words of Tommy Boy... "Holy Schnikeys!"

It is very likely Z Man you are the most bizarre, irrational TOL member ever to set foot on this forum.

letsargue probably is far more incoherent, but I expect better of zman...he is being dogmatic on an issue he should not be.

 

[Freak]

In my mind, God, pretty much.

:rotfl: "pretty much."

 

[Lighthouse]

:rotfl: "pretty much."

There wasn't supposed to be a period there.

 

[Delmar]

THE BURDEN OF PROOF LIES IN YOUR HANDS!​

WHAT A CROCK

 

[Delmar]

:rotfl: "pretty much."

OK, you didn't like the way I phrased it but is there any thing in my response you did not understand?

Who controls the weather in your mind? :dizzy:

In my mind, God, pretty much, set the physical universe in motion and let it run on the power he put into the system when he created it. I suppose you could make the argument that when He caused Noah's flood God was able to see how that changed the weather patterns on Earth from that point on. Looking at the issue from that angle I can see how one assert, for example, that God caused Hurricane Katrina and every other storm.
Having said that, it is not Gods fault that people chose to build a city below sea level or that wicked local city planners, for political gain, got in the way of the federal governments desire to build an extra sea wall around New Orleans.

 

[Seraphim]

God can create a mechanism (say the weather) without having to guide each rain drop to its destination. God can create a plant that can live on its own without God's direct manipulation. That is the majesty of God. He can do what we cannot.