elected4ever
New member
I did punctuate it wrong. I hadn't noticed before. I corrected it so I hope it is more clear. Please accept my apologies.jrnewma1 said:
ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
elected4ever
New member
I hope not.Clete said:
elected4ever
New member
Right, I didn't make it very clear. I apologize.Knight said:Excellent point!
God says He will not remember a Christians sin. Ahem... cough... ahem.
Newman
New member
elected4ever said:
I will never ever forgive you for that. I hope bad luck and misfortune will torture your pathetic soul for the rest of eternity because you missed a quotation mark. What an idiot!im just kidding of course :duh:
you didn't have to apologize, i just got a little confused :dizzy: .
elected4ever
New member
I knew I should have paid more attention in English class :bang:jrnewma1 said:
im just kidding of course :duh:
you didn't have to apologize, i just got a little confused :dizzy: .
elected4ever
New member
We believe that Jesus has come in fulfillment of prophesy and look back in history and believe.jrnewma1 said:
Those who were before Christ believed in the prophecy yet unfulfilled and looked forward to His appearing. The old and the new testament saints believe in the same God and same fulfillment. It was still by grace through faith in the same Messiah.
mercyschild
New member
Sozo said:
If we were 'truly perfect' right at accepting God's grace, we wouldn't be stuck in this same old shamefully sinful world now would we?
mercyschild
New member
jrnewma1 said:
The animal sacrifices were made to appease God for the short time (well, if you consider a couple hundred years a short time!) before God's ultimate sacrifice would come. So, in a sense, they were unnecessary, but in another, they were necessary for the people of that time.
elected4ever
New member
If you believe Christ you wouldn't be stuck in the law and condemned.mercyschild said:
elected4ever
New member
it is not for me to say whether it was necessary or unnecessary as it is God who executes His own plan. I could care less about theory. Am I to say that God is theoretically right or wrong? I don't think so.jrnewma1 said:
elected4ever
New member
Well, yes we would because god has not chosen to take us out of the world. We are in the world and not of the world.mercyschild said:
Sozo
New member
Yes, and we are. Have you ever read Romans 8? If so, maybe you should read it again. Like right now.mercyschild said:
Do you know anything about the gospel?
Do you know what it means to be "born of God"?
Do you know what it means when Paul said that he died with Christ, and it is no longer he who lives, but Christ?
btw... The bible says we are made perfect. If you don't like what the bible says, then take it up with God.
elected4ever
New member
mercyschild, there is purpose for us remaining. in the world. You are the Victor , not the victim. Proclaim the victory to all that will hear. You are god's answer to despair.
I had always been taught from ministers teachers, that christians do sin but it is covered by the blood of Jesus.elected4ever said:
With the exception of the baptist church I first attended.
I really am seeing more where you are coming from now.
Really doesn't it come out the same anyway Your sins are forgiven after salvation, then they are covered from then on?
mercyschild
New member
Sozo said:
I have read Romans 8 several times; and no where within that context does it say we are made perfect; sorry, but mine is talking about the comparison between the Old and New covanents. It is talking alot about 'future tense' as there are alot of "I Will" statements within it. The writer is not talking about our earthly perfection, but Christ's perfect ministry.
Chapter 10 is a better example of what you are trying to get at, however, even within that context there is no mention that we as humanity are 'made perfect' in every way, it's simply addressing that there will be no further need for sacrifice for sins.
mercyschild
New member
elected4ever said:
I know I am a victor, but does that still mean I am 'perfect'? No. If that were true, why did Paul, even, address himself as "the worst of sinners?" What about David? He was called a man after God's own heart; was he perfect? No, but he repented and saught after his Father. What about Samson? He was used by God, yet still had some pretty bad habits!
Yes, I agree with you when you stated that we are to live 'in the world, but not become a part of it'; we ARE to be set apart, and live lives above reproach, but there is still one tiny aspect, that even God knows about-which is what grace is all about-and that is, even when we have claimed the blood of Christ, we are still human; and humans are messy! We fall short; and we will always fall short of God's glory; why??? Because we are not perfect yet...period! If God had intended for Christ's bloodshed to make us perfect in our earthly bodies, he would take away all the temptations and troubles away once we accepted him as our personal savior; but has he? NO! To live and say, that you will be perfect in 'every way' in this earthly body is, I believe, a sign of wrong-minded-ness. We are to live our lives striving to serve God and others, but we still wrestle with the 'self'-and that is a part of the growth process; God doesn't desire us to stray away and fall back into our old habits, but through those 'wanderings' we are somehow grabbed in closer at the wonder of God's grace. We confess our sins (James 5:16), and we are healed.
Hebrews 12 speaks of that 'imperfection' by encouraging us to remain strong in God's punishment of our sin. We are to be encouraged because we know that God loves and cares for us. We either respond to his punishment by repenting and returning to him; or we respond by shrugging that punishment off, and sweeping it under the carpet. Being in God's fold, is about relationship with the heavenly father, not about bragging that "Oh, I am christian, therefore I am perfect in everyway!" Relationships, that I have noticed in my life, are not all 'perfect'; we get hurt, or we hurt others; we turn away from God, but he still strives to get us back; we live like we are 'okay', but may be living in a world of sin; regardless of our standing with God. We have to work at our relationships with others, as we do with God; yes, we are to live our lives in reverant fear; but we are not fully perfect yet-these bodies are still wracked with earthly troubles on everyside-which is why we are encouraged to stand firm; the perfection we are aiming at will arrive fully when we reach the throne room of God and stand face to face with the Father.
I agree with the position of Sozo, e4e, and Lighthouse
I agree with the position of Sozo, e4e, and Lighthouse
This is a great topic and a great truth to teach: Our Identity in Christ. This is a positional truth. Others in this thread have done a great job showing this truth through scripture already so I won't bother with a lengthy post; however, I did want to add a few coments.
In my opinion, the Bible very plainly shows through the Episltles of Paul that Christians are to place their identity in Christ and not sin. If we truly realize that Christ crucified sin upon the cross and we now recognize that we have the Mind of Christ, we are truly free indeed. That's right...we are free from sin!
Christians who do not realize this truth and who continue to sin thinking that they are still subject to sin will effectually crucify Christ over and over and over again. This is wrong. Most Christians have an attitude of "doing" instead of "being". That is most Christians feel that they must do certain things to achieve Christ-likeness. The fact of the matter is that we are already Christ-like. We have the Mind of Christ. All we have to do is allow Christ to work in us and we will bear righteous fruit!
Believing that Christians can and do still sin is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If a Christian identifies themselves with sin, they will sin. It's pretty simple really. Identifying with sin will allow the flesh to continue sinning.
Now, it is my observation that most Christians, the ones who place a lot of importance and emphasis on free will (Open Viewers), will never get this important truth or they will be intellectually dishonest about it. This is so because believing in this biblical truth shows the truth of depravity. The old man dying shows that we were indeed born children of wrath. This is why the majority of Open Viewers will never concede the truth of our Identity in Christ. It will hurt their bogus theology of Openness. At any rate, that's my opinion.
Again, this is a great subject to talk about! Great job, Sozo! :thumb:
Roland
I agree with the position of Sozo, e4e, and Lighthouse
This is a great topic and a great truth to teach: Our Identity in Christ. This is a positional truth. Others in this thread have done a great job showing this truth through scripture already so I won't bother with a lengthy post; however, I did want to add a few coments.
In my opinion, the Bible very plainly shows through the Episltles of Paul that Christians are to place their identity in Christ and not sin. If we truly realize that Christ crucified sin upon the cross and we now recognize that we have the Mind of Christ, we are truly free indeed. That's right...we are free from sin!
Christians who do not realize this truth and who continue to sin thinking that they are still subject to sin will effectually crucify Christ over and over and over again. This is wrong. Most Christians have an attitude of "doing" instead of "being". That is most Christians feel that they must do certain things to achieve Christ-likeness. The fact of the matter is that we are already Christ-like. We have the Mind of Christ. All we have to do is allow Christ to work in us and we will bear righteous fruit!
Believing that Christians can and do still sin is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If a Christian identifies themselves with sin, they will sin. It's pretty simple really. Identifying with sin will allow the flesh to continue sinning.
Now, it is my observation that most Christians, the ones who place a lot of importance and emphasis on free will (Open Viewers), will never get this important truth or they will be intellectually dishonest about it. This is so because believing in this biblical truth shows the truth of depravity. The old man dying shows that we were indeed born children of wrath. This is why the majority of Open Viewers will never concede the truth of our Identity in Christ. It will hurt their bogus theology of Openness. At any rate, that's my opinion.
Again, this is a great subject to talk about! Great job, Sozo! :thumb:
Roland
elected4ever
New member
No. Even the baptist believe that a christian must continue to ask for forgiveness in spit of the fact that Christ paid for sin with his own Blood. That is not scriptural. The blood has been applied to every one. If it were not then we would not be able to come to God for life. It is the only sacrifice that God will recognize as sufficient covering for sin. When we come to God the Father and confess the blood as payment for our sin and receive new life form God. The old life is still in sin so the old life remains, but the old life is not who we are any more. If we believe in the power of the resurrection of Christ. God makes us a new creation, the old is passed, not will pass but have passed from death unto life and that life is in His Son. Sin remains in the flesh but we are not of the flesh if the spirit dwells in you. If you have not the spirit then you do not have life. Life is of the spirit not of the flesh. Salvation is not about the forgiveness of sins but the giving of life. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This life is born of God in the spirit and the Apostle Paul says, "Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Evee said:
10 ¶And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" and Jesus said, "John 10:10b I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Salvation is about life