Maybe you don't build your theology on Greek philosophy but Augustine did by his own confession.
"By having thus read the books of the Platonists, and having been taught by them to search for the incorporeal Truth, I saw how thy invisible things are understood through the things that are made. (Natural theology preceeding Revealed theology) And, even when I was thrown back, I still sensed what it was that the dullness of my soul would not allow me to contemplate. I was assured that thou wast, and wast infinite, though not diffused in finite space or infinity (timeless); that thou truly art, who art ever the same, (changeless) varying neither in part nor motion (immovable); and that all things are from thee, as is proved by this sure cause alone (nothing moves itself): that they exist...I now believe that it was thy pleasure that I should fall upon these books before I studied thy Scripture (determinism), that it might be impressed on my memory how I was affected by them."
Certiainly I agree, there definitely was influence of greek philosophy upon him, but I use scripture to back up claims of who God is. I do not believe He is unmoved, but that He is perfect. Our change is from lessers to glory, His is responsive change that entails His perfect love and care. This should have an OV thread btw, there is great room here for misinterpretation from those looking in, and in fact, the debate between Enyart and Cook pointed to this. There is a need to define 'unmoved mover.' I've been with you guys long enough to know we aren't necessarily in disagreement, but because it is a change in a doctrinal stance, it needs a good address.
Then what does the Bible say?
Biblical premise:
Knowledge of God begins with God
The Biblical premise is that God has spoken to us through the prophets to tell us he is the Creator of the world and has revealed himself to us through his son. John 14:8-9 "Jesus said to his disciples, 'If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.' Philip said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.' Jesus said to him, 'He who had seen Me has seen the Father.'"
Biblical analysis:
Movement, change, and time exist in God
Hebrews 1:10-12 "Thou, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands; they will perish, but thou remainest; and they all will become old as a garment, and as a mantle thou wilt roll them up as a garment they will also be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will not come to an end." The creation is the work of God; this is movement. God has "years"; this is time. These verses tell us that the material world will run down and wear out through time, but God, who is spirit, will not experience change nor perish though time.
Psalms 90:1-4 "Before the mountains were born, or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God. For a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or as a watch in the night." Because God has no beginning and no end, a thousand years is as a day to God. There are theologians who say that these verses explain that God is timeless, but the verses only say that God experiences time differently than we do.
The Bible records that God has changed his mind, his mood, and his form. Genesis 6:5-8 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."
Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people." To repent is a change of mind and action.
I agree with this, it is scriptural, but.... there are some logic problems we should discuss. Because God is perfect there is no 'need' to change. His change therefore must be seen as necessary for 'us.' I am not perfect so to even appreciate the sense of a sentence like this I'm scrambling. If you make a perfect anything, you could change it (like the colors, or wooden panels. It wouldn't necessarily make it less perfect, but what we do know is that from Everlasting to Everlasting God is the same Psa 90:2; Psa 89:34; and in Kings we also recon that Something in His very nature does not change. Therefore, there must need be a cogent theology that accounts for what we see. To simply say "God changes" is just as wrong to simply say "God never changes." There is great need to build a cogent doctrine.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the word became flesh and dwelt among us."This is greatest change of all. The Word becoming flesh not only speaks of change but also time and movement.
Yes, but by the very act there is a transcendence of time at the incarnation. Once I was told by OV in here that when Joshua's day of battle extened, it was not the suspension of time, but it definitely was a time change. Whether by stopping all the universe, or by some other means, the concept of time was suspended. This gets very difficult in which to see clearly, but this moment in O.T. history transcends our understandings. Somehow that particular day had more hours involved with it. The pattern of perception of time was disrupted. All this to say, that God's time is different from ours (a day as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day).
Biblical conclusion:
God is the creator of the world and enters it
The Bible reveals that God acted sequentially in the creation of the universe. In six days he brought into existence a world that had not previously existed. This reveals time and movement in God. The incarnation is a change in God; "The Word became flesh." This is the antithesis of Plato's deity who "always is and never becomes", and Aristotle's "immovable" deity.
That God has a past, present, and future is quite obvious. The creation and incarnation are past events for God. The day of judgement is a future event for God as it is for us. The essence of time has always existed in God himself. In the creation there is only a new way to measure it, "seasons, days and years",
Genesis 1:14. God assures us that his character does not change. He always has been and always will be love, light, and justice, etc.. But the Bible clearly tells us that God can change his mind, make plans, and alter them. He has unlimited potential and freedom of thought and action in an eternity of unlimited time.
