ARCHIVE: I believe religion to be obsolete

[PureX]

Originally posted by Aimiel What would you have God do, prove Himself by circumstances? Just because the god of this world has manipulated circumstances (death, wars, illness, misfortune, etc.) does that make him supreme, in your estimation?

You have no evidence whatever that God has manipulated anything. You have no evidence that God even exists. All you have are fantasies that you pretend are real, and so they become "real" to you. That's why you're spouting off these ridiculous platitudes trying to turn beliefs into factual reality.

I am not an atheist, and I am not anti - theistic. But there is a point where theism becomes so absurd and ridiculous that any honest rational human being will have to call a spade a spade. If a person wants to believe in the existence of God, I believe this choice is not only positive and useful in most cases, but rational as well. But it IS a CHOSEN BELIEF, and there is NO PROOF that such a belief is the truth. This isn't because God is weak or duplicitous or any such superstitious nonsense. It's because we as human beings do not have the ability to veryify the existence of an phenomena that we would define as "God". And the same applies to "divine revelation". If God stood right in front of you and poured out God's heart and mind to you, you STILL wouldn't have any way of determining that it was God or some other unknown entity or even an illusion created by your own mind. You simply do not possess the ability to verify such a claim and I really don't see why you and so many other theists can't be honest enough to accept this. Instead, you spout off all this ridiculous nonsense about how your beliefs are truth because you believe them to be true while everyone else's beliefs are not true because they don't believe that your beliefs are true ... it's just plain stupid.

Own up to your faith, and stop fobbing off fantasies as if they're reality. No one in their right mind believes this nonsense. And the people who do are only harming themselves by embracing such irrational dishonesty.

Originally posted by Aimiel The Lord has chosen to reveal Himself to those who trust Him, and not to those who might, were He to reveal Himself openly, turn away at the first sign of any opposition.

Oh, baloney!

God is not hiding from anyone. If God exists, God is everywhere. If God exists, God is in all of us. If God exists, everything is the result of God's will regardless of what we think, do, say, or believe. This assertion that God is picking favorites (you) and ignoring others (everyone who doesn't agree with you) is so stupid and self-centered it's hard for me to grasp how people can be so foolish as to even consider it.

 

[PureX]

Originally posted by granite1010

Exactly. It's extremely cult-like. I'm starting to think that all of Christianity is, in one way or another, some kind of psychological aberration. (Well, not just Christianity; any kind of religious fundamentalism, really.)

PureX, I may have asked you before, but are you familiar with "memes" and the connection some make between memes and Christianity?

Only in passing. I think self-awareness is the way to transcend being enslaved by these "memes" or paradigms. I don't have a problem with people choosing to comprehend the world around them through a particular conceptual paradigm; how else could we? But when we willfully refuse to acknowledge that the way we comprehend the world around us is through a givin paradigm and that were we to change that paradigm, we would look at and understand the world very differently than the way we see and understand it, now. As other do.

And when people start spouting off about how their paradigm is "divine enlightenment" and all that I just have to say: "get over yourself, already!".

I'm not against a Christian paradigm, and in fact I think it can be a very good and positive way of viewing and understanding the world, but this ridiculous self-centered religiosity that's being passed off as "divine revelation" and the very definition of Christianity is just absurd.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by PureX

Only in passing. I think self-awareness is the way to transcend being enslaved by these "memes" or paradigms. I don't have a problem with people choosing to comprehend the world around them through a particular conceptual paradigm; how else could we? But when we willfully refuse to acknowledge that the way we comprehend the world around us is through a givin paradigm and that were we to change that paradigm, we would look at and understand the world very differently than the way we see and understand it, now. As other do.

And when people start spouting off about how their paradigm is "divine enlightenment" and all that I just have to say: "get over yourself, already!".

I'm not against a Christian paradigm, and in fact I think it can be a very good and positive way of viewing and understanding the world, but this ridiculous self-centered religiosity that's being passed off as "divine revelation" and the very definition of Christianity is just absurd.

One of the biggest struggles I've had recently is a way to break the "meme," which is very loosely defined as a kind of mental virus. The idea or concept spreads and moves on to a new carrier. Commercial jingles ("Do the Dew") are a kind of meme. But like physical viruses, mental viruses like memes can be more complex and, potentially, more powerful and threatening.

I should note that memetics is a burgeoning field and some of it is speculative, but it seems to make sense. I feel as though I've been ill or infected for so long, and now I'm moving into recovery.

I admire the Christian paradigm, as you call it. There is much to respect. But there is also much to dislike, loathe, and fear from it.

 

[Benedice]

"An idea is something you have;
an ideology is something that has you."

--Morris Berman - a memist.

 

[prodigal]

Aimiel,

The Lord has chosen to reveal Himself to those who trust Him

Your god has given me no reason to either trust him, or even believe he is the true god of the universe, if there even is such a thing. The words of an old book aren’t good enough.

Believe whatever you want, Aimiel, just don’t pass it off to me as truth without some form of tangible, demonstrable proof that can be sensed with one or all of any man’s five senses. This is a challenge that Christians cannot rebut head on. The call for empirical evidence is pounding Christianity to dust.

Face it, accept it, and get on with your life. Keep believing, that’s your right as a human. Just don’t expect skeptics to suddenly jump for joy because of the good news of your unprovable gospel.

PureX,

Hitting the nail on the head as always. Christianity is simply a case of people’s mass imaginations getting the better of them. Dungeons and Dragons is based on mythical stories and has millions of followers. Do they take it seriously? Some of them do, but for the most part they all know it’s just a game.

Christianity is a problem with the mind. Insecure people who need answers flock to it in an effort to sleep better at night. I’ve been saying it from the beginning, I’ll always say it. I don’t care what myths anyone believes in, PureX, you’re probably right, there probably are measurable, positive effects. But people shouldn’t need that kind of a crutch to sleep at night. All they need is to accept reality for what it is and get on with their lives without having to enslave themselves to their own low self-esteem.

Lighthouse is the perfect example of a Christian who uses his religion as an excuse to over-come his crummy self-image.

Let’s look at this:

He is twenty four.
He works at Dairy Queen.
He has no idea what he wants to do with his life (and that’s fine, a lot of people never figure that out, but he finds power and self-righteousness that he hasn’t earned in the real world through his fantasies, that’s bad)
He’s over weight
He’s never sex
He probably doesn’t have a girlfriend
People find his attitude disagreeable, even if they agree with his theology
His behavior is childish and reprehensible
He’s insulting
He’s exhibited absolutely no knowledge of how to function in the real world.

I on the other hand:

Am twenty one.
I am a realtor.
I know exactly what I am going to do with my life, and the obstacles I will over come in order to accomplish the lofty goals I have set for myself.
I’m not over weight
I have explored my own sexuality
I’ve had girlfriends and am now in an incredibly gratifying situation with my ladyfriend
My family loves me, my customers and clients like me and trust me
I have class
I know what it takes to make it in this world, and rest assured, I will.

Now, I will give LH this much, he’s right, I am incredibly arrogant. But I’ve earned it. I’ve gone out into the world as an incredibly young man and I’ve been kicking butt. I’m making it in a big way, I’m going places. I have a bright future, I’m bursting with youthful exuberance and potential. By the time I’m forty I’ll probably be making six digits a year.

I don’t have to attribute my success to anyone but myself, and all of my believers.

LH has no self-esteem, he has no life, and, compared to me, he is a loser. He is a powerless human being who will find power wherever he can to compensate for his inadequacies. He has found his power in the fantasies of Christianity. So far I have yet to find a consistent philosophy to his particular brand of Christianity, so I have no other conclusion to come to other than he is just making it up as he goes along. He believes in a fairy tale in an attempt to empower himself. He hasn’t earned a right to be a nasty little cuss, he just is a nasty little cuss and he uses god as an excuse to treat everyone else around him like they are lesser, even in the face of reality, reality which dictates that he is a lonely, pointless, loser whose life has no meaning other than to take up space and peddle soft serve at a dying ice cream franchise.

I on the other hand am taking action, making things happen, and negotiating the sale and purchase of real property. I’m making the world spin. He’s just crapping on it.

In short PureX, I think you’re right on the money.

Yours truly,

Prodigal

 

[Granite]

Well. At least prodigal doesn't have self-esteem issues...

 

[Benedice]

Be careful, Prodigal.

Luke 14:11: For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

(I've learned this the hard way, unfortunately!)

Sounds like you're on the right track, though, at such a young age. Keep up the good work.

 

[prodigal]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Benedice.

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by prodigal

Your god has given me no reason to either trust him, or even believe he is the true god of the universe, if there even is such a thing.

He gave you life, and offers you eternal life, if you'll take Him at His Word. Believing that He is a liar will never allow you to understand the truth. If you did that with other authors, read their works believing they are liars, with absolutely no proof that they are, you'd never learn anything. Every man who has ever lived is a liar, but God tells The Truth.

The words of an old book aren’t good enough.

Then I guess you'll just have to wait and see what the consequences of your disbelief are. They are eternal, and can't be recinded.

Believe whatever you want, Aimiel, just don’t pass it off to me as truth without some form of tangible, demonstrable proof that can be sensed with one or all of any man’s five senses.

I guess that you don't accept your own thoughts as being 'real' then, right? I mean, you can't prove that they are real. You can't sense them, without being subjective.

This is a challenge that Christians cannot rebut head on.

That's because we aren't God. He is responsible to you, to prove to you what you ask Him to. He can't produce in your heart what you deny, only what you will believe of Truth. If you ask Him to demonstrate Himself to you, He will. If you won't, He can't.

The call for empirical evidence is pounding Christianity to dust.

Only in your imagination. God decided long before you became aware that you were alive that He would veil His Presence from men. That is just a part of the mystery of God.

Just don’t expect skeptics to suddenly jump for joy because of the good news of your unprovable gospel.

I do, and they do, every day, although The Gospel is proven, but only to those who believe. Those who are perishing will only ever view it as 'foolishness.'

 

[prodigal]

Aimiel,

He gave you life, and offers you eternal life, if you'll take Him at His Word

Sorry, Aimiel, I just can’t do that. I wish it were that easy, but I haven’t seen anything to show me that it is. There’s no way that I can trust that he gave me life and will give me eternal life. You may quote your book, but it’s validity is something that I find to be highly suspect.

Then I guess you'll just have to wait and see what the consequences of your disbelief are

We’re both waiting, Aimiel.

I guess that you don't accept your own thoughts as being 'real' then, right? I mean, you can't prove that they are real. You can't sense them, without being subjective.

Don’t try to play this little game with me, Aimiel. Hilston tried and left. Clete tried and failed miserably. This form of unprovable, hypothetical arguing is pointless.

If you ask Him to demonstrate Himself to you, He will. If you won't, He can't.

Tried and it didn’t work.

Only in your imagination. God decided long before you became aware that you were alive that He would veil His Presence from men. That is just a part of the mystery of God.

You see, this carries no weight whatsoever, Aimiel. Your book is chock full and riddled with contradictions that you cannot explain. You can’t explain anything but the details of your faith that are based on the teachings of a book whose validity you cannot verify. The bible is suspect, Aimiel, therefore, why would I bother to take it, or you, at your word?

You can’t prove the above statement to be true, so please don’t say it as if it were.

There is an entire field emerging of late that is based on scrutinizing and picking apart your book from a logical, historical stance. The evidence against it is piling up. It takes no imagination to see it, all you have to do is go online or go to the book store. There is an army building against Christianity. You and your brothers in the faith are now on the defensive against this rising army. I have made no stretch of the imagination, I leave that to Christians and I deal with the facts.

I do, and they do, every day, although The Gospel is proven, but only to those who believe. Those who are perishing will only ever view it as 'foolishness.'

For every non-believer who converts to your archaic form of god worship, there are ten Christians who cast aside their belief and join ranks next to me. You’re fighting a losing battle. You may not lose today, you may not lose tomorrow, but you will eventually and all of your faith, words and book will have been for not.

And we’re all perishing, Aimiel. You’re going to die just like me. Believe what you want about the after life if it helps you deal with death, but the stories you base your beliefs on were written as metaphors, and you take them seriously.

You’re a pagan. You are missing the boat for new religion.

Yours truly,

Prodigal

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by prodigal

Sorry, Aimiel, I just can’t do that.

Then you'll never be saved from your fate: eternal torment.

This form of unprovable, hypothetical arguing is pointless.

You're quite right, if you've decided that someone is a liar, you can never learn otherwise, without believing they might not be.

Your book is chock full and riddled with contradictions that you cannot explain.

Thanks, but I didn't write it. Neither are there any contradictions, to those with faith.

You can’t explain anything but the details of your faith that are based on the teachings of a book whose validity you cannot verify.

You're right. The verifications are given only to those who believe.

There is an entire field emerging of late that is based on scrutinizing and picking apart your book from a logical, historical stance.

They have tried for thousands of years, but the historic and scientific evidence in The Bible has yet to be dis-proven on a single point. It is still the most accurate ancient historic record we have.

The evidence against it is piling up.

Yes, a great big pile of BS. Your imagination is running away with you. Do you write speeches for John Kerry?

There is an army building against Christianity.

Yes, and every single one of them will be defeated, as have been the rest.

You and your brothers in the faith are now on the defensive against this rising army.

What do you think is 'news' about that? Jesus warned us that the world would hate us, since there is no truth in them (yourself). They killed Him, why wouldn't they do the same (or worse) to His Children?

For every non-believer who converts to your archaic form of god worship, there are ten Christians who cast aside their belief and join ranks next to me.

Church attendance (including saying that one is 'Christian') doesn't make someone a Christian, any more than walking into McDonald's makes one a hamburger.

You’re fighting a losing battle.

No, merely expressing faith in The Word of God as Truth, and saying that I will not part with It, because I know in Whom I have believed. I have won, because I have gained eternal life, the fellowship of The Lord, His Saints and enjoy His Presence, every day.

You may not lose today, you may not lose tomorrow, but you will eventually and all of your faith, words and book will have been for not.

37 years now a Christian. Haven't lost faith. Oh, I've wandered. I've forsaken Him. I also found myself on the bottom, looked around, and He had not forsaken me. My faith will not have been for naught, even if there is no God (there is), and when we die there is no afterlife (there is). If that were the case I will have wasted nothing, since believing in Him has not cost me anything. You, on the other hand, if you are wrong, will suffer eternally. Why risk that, when, for no charge, mere faith in Jesus, you could live forever? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

And we’re all perishing, Aimiel. You’re going to die just like me.

Quite possibly not. The rapture might just catch me, still speaking to people about Jesus. What I meant by perishing was the fact that you're going to perish in hell, which is the only reason that God calls you foolish. He offers you a way out, and you reject it, because He didn't 'prove' it to you? Only a fool would say, in his heart, "There is no god."

You’re a pagan. You are missing the boat for new religion.

I'm pagan? What 'new religion' are you referring to?

 

[PureX]

Originally posted by granite1010 One of the biggest struggles I've had recently is a way to break the "meme," which is very loosely defined as a kind of mental virus. The idea or concept spreads and moves on to a new carrier. Commercial jingles ("Do the Dew") are a kind of meme. But like physical viruses, mental viruses like memes can be more complex and, potentially, more powerful and threatening.

Something I learned in dealing with alcoholism was that the repitition of a thought pattern over many years will sort of burn itself into the neuropathways that are used to generate that thought. For example, as an alcoholic, I had taught myself to believe that the solution to every problem was a drink. If I got a flat tire, the solution was to go to the bar and get a drink. If I got a bill that I couldn't pay, the solution was to go to the bar and get a drink. If I was depressed, the solution was to go get a drink. If I was happy, the solution was to go get a drink.

Even after I sobered up and began to recognize this insane pattern of thinking, the pattern remained in my mind for a long time, and the reason was that over the years I had physically shaped the neuropathways in my brain to most easily fascilitate this particular thought response to anything that I perceived to be a problem. And the only way I could overcome this habitual thought pattern was to persistantly and consciously negate it until the new responses began to burn their own pathways into my mind.

This is why recovery programs use so many of those simple catch phrases. We use these phrases to help us burn in new thought responses. For example, in AA they often say "do the next right thing". When I get a flat tire: "do them next right thing": fix the flat. When I get a bill; "do the next right thing": pay the bill, or pay whatever part of it I can. If I'm depressed, "do the next right thing": help someone else out as that always makes us feel better for them and better about ourselves, too. If I'm happy, "do the next right thing" and enjoy it - share it with someone. That phrase eventually burned itself into my mind and replaced the old neuro-thought pattern of "get a drink". A lot of addiction recovery is about "brain-washing" ourselves, just as a lot of addiction is itself a form of brain-washing.

I think these cult religions are addictions, too, plain and simple. The people who get caught up in them have become addicted to the illusions of righteousness, and security, and superiority that these religions peddle. They become so addicted to it that they begin to act just like any street junkie - they'll completely forfeit logic, reason, and all common sense and adopt any idiotic idea as an excuse to get their "fix". The only difference is that in this case the "fix" is an emotion induced by fantasy rather than emotions induced by chemicals. And what's being "fixed", as with any addict, is the ego. The image of one's self. That's what addictions are all about - using some kind of dishonest short-cut to "fix" one's image of one's self. To feel good about one's self without actually having done anything to feel good about.

Originally posted by granite1010 I feel as though I've been ill or infected for so long, and now I'm moving into recovery.

That's exactly how it should feel, because that's pretty much exactly what's happened to you. You have been infected by a mental/emotional/spiritual illness, very similar to an addiction. And over time it has burned it's irrational and self-destructive thought patterns into your mind, physically. To recover from this illness not only requires you to "awaken" from the spell of these irrational thought patters, but for a while it will require that you persistently and consciously work at replacing them in your mind with new more ratinal and healthy thought patterns. It's tiring, and frustrating work, but fortunately it doesn't take all that long to over-write the old thought patterns.

Originally posted by granite1010 I admire the Christian paradigm, as you call it. There is much to respect. But there is also much to dislike, loathe, and fear from it.

Yeah, I think the key is to separate the negative nonsense from the positive spiritual wisdom. For me that means separating the religion from the ideal. I love the ideals that Jesus preached and represents. I have little use or even respect for the religious nonsense that has sprung up in Christ's name. As long as I keep them separate, though, I can have Christ and leave the religion behind.

 

[Granite]

"Something I learned in dealing with alcoholism was that the repitition of a thought pattern over many years will sort of burn itself into the neuropathways that are used to generate that thought."

Yep. Your synapses and what not--whatever else is up there with your "little gray cells," as Poirot called them--get twisted and honed with time, just like the rest of you. This actually makes sense; your brain is an organ, after all.

"I think these cult religions are addictions, too, plain and simple. The people who get caught up in them have become addicted to the illusions of righteousness, and security, and superiority that these religions peddle. They become so addicted to it that they begin to act just like any street junkie - they'll completely forfeit logic, reason, and all common sense and adopt any idiotic idea as an excuse to get their 'fix'."

Well, if you think about it, when cornered or challenged or threatened, these people DO respond like junkies. They get belligerent, violent, and confrontational. It's as if churches are like vast opium dens, from the Victorian Era. (Maybe Marx was on to something after all.)

Good stuff PureX. Always a pleasure chattin'...

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Lighthouse--you were going to present a text which disproved Reformed doctrine, but when I asked you a question about the verse which you yourself selected, you did not answer my querstion.

Making statements that are not based on the text in question is not valid. You made nothing more than a general statement. SHOW THE PROPER INTERPRETATION OF THE TEXT IN QUESTION. Exegete the words of the text and show how they are proof of the position that you sday is correct. It isn't ernough for you to say, I'm right. Show THROUGH THE WORDS OF THE TEXT why you are right!

Again, my question: What does the text give as the reason that Christ has not yet returned? What is His reason for not having returned yet?

Remember that this is the text you selected to disprove the Reformed view of scripture. If you believe that it does, you should be GLAD to freely discuss what the words in the text mean to you. Why haven't you? This is your opportunity to point out the words of the text and show how they themselves disprove the Reformed view of scripture.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Granite1010 and Prodigal--I have been busy with fasmily visitation lately, but I have located two commentators, one born in the 1600' and another long since dead, who both make statements in agreement with my understanding of scripture on the fabric of space. I have not yet checked other commentators, and I don't have the texts now available to me, butr I will check further, and give you quotes from the first two I checked.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Granite1010--in a post above, you said that there is much to fear from the Christian paradigm--yeah, you better watch out, buster! We're gonna gitchee, gitchee!

We believe in freedom and liberty. To those intend to RULE over other men, to those who believe in THEIR rule over others rather than the rule of law over all men alike so that EVERYONE may have freedom and liberty, the Christian paradigm IS a threat; but the problem is NOT with the concept of freedom and liberty, it is with those who would set themselves up as gods over other men and destroy both freedom and liberty to pursue their dreams of tyranny. Yeah, we are a REAL THREAT--but only to the intent of tyrants!!

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

Granite1010--in a post above, you said that there is much to fear from the Christian paradigm--yeah, you better watch out, buster! We're gonna gitchee, gitchee!

We believe in freedom and liberty. To those intend to RULE over other men, to those who believe in THEIR rule over others rather than the rule of law over all men alike so that EVERYONE may have freedom and liberty, the Christian paradigm IS a threat; but the problem is NOT with the concept of freedom and liberty, it is with those who would set themselves up as gods over other men and destroy both freedom and liberty to pursue their dreams of tyranny. Yeah, we are a REAL THREAT--but only to the intent of tyrants!!

Christians have abused political power the minute they got it, and I can't think of any exceptions. The Puritans crushed and hanged their enemies (the lucky ones just got their property seized and were kicked out of town). Do we even need to go into the Inquisitions, the genocides, and the political abuses in Europe?

Christianity in America gave us real winning policy like Prohibition and the war on drugs (so-called). Whenever Christianity has seized any kind of political supremacy they've abused their authority. This is the pattern and there's no reason to think that will change.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by granite1010

Brandon: I am not going to do your homework for you.

However--if you read something like "Unger's Bible Handbook" or just a general encyclopedia of the Bible you'll get some general information. I'm encouraging you to read more about the book you depend on! Come on! This should be a no brainer.

Does it matter when the "books" were written?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by prodigal

Lighthouse,



Fine, whatever you say. What you believe makes absolutely no sense.

Only to those who are completely senseless.

The meaning of scripture is defined by the interpretation. Rolf is right, for the most part Christians are able to agree on the crucial points (those things that are crucial to salvation) but even those points were interpreted and decided upon by mere men. Whatever you believe may be what the bible says, but the bible says a lot of things. There’s no way to determine which interpretation is correct, because for every doctrine you follow there’s a contrary one that others follow and can make an equally strong case for.

Actually, they can't. The reason I don't like organized religion is because I can't find Biblical support for so many doctrines. And even those who seem to be able to make a case for their doctrine, I find most of their support to be taken out of context, and when put in context it contradicts their doctrine.

I thought your god was supposed to live outside of time and sees it as a whole. What about all of the scripture passages referring to your god’s foreknowledge of the future?

That's not my God. My God does not live outside of time, because time is not truly existant. There is a passage of time. That is all. The past is gone, and the future hasn't happened, yet. What verses are you speaking of? And what assumption are you making here? Just because I don't beleive God has exhaustive foreknowledge of the future doesn't mean that I believe He doesn't know any of what the future holds, or even might hold.

That may be so, but if you actually read Paul’s words than you’ll be able to tell that not even he knows for sure. It’s just as faith based for him as it is for everyone else. He doesn’t know, he just believes.

Paul met Christ. Paul knows. End of story.

Not what I said at all. I’m not an idiot, I’m not a moron. I’m saying that you’re interpreting something literally that was supposed to be taken as a metaphorical lesson, like the rest of the literature of the NT author’s day and age.

You're a tool.

Seeing as how Christianity was hated even at it’s inception, I doubt too many broken families would follow their raving children in a religion that was copping every myth they had grown up with.

See above.

Doesn’t really count. Read Wheless, read Doherty. Read the ook Your Church Doesn’t Want You To Read.

What book is that?

That’s not all that it’s based on. Like I said, because you are still a Christian, my perspective and Granite’s perspective are too unique for your little brain to handle. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

:crackup:

Also, I commended you for being able to explain the discrepancy in the Michal passage, but that was one contradiction of many that I cited and only one of many more that I didn’t. Even if these contradictions were enough for someone not to believe, it would be more than enough.

:yawn:

Scholars educated in this realm of study will tell you that. I’m just pointing out what people light years ahead of yourself know for a fact.

I know Christ, for a fact.

You're a sad, pathetic excuse for an intellectual.

Reading. Reading what scholars who have studied the origins of the bible have to say. And John Mark and Mark are two completely different people as I understand it. Might be wrong, but I don’t think I am. All you have to do is read Matthew and Luke and compare them to Mark while you’re doing it.

Really easy.

I thought you said they were full of contradictions.

That’s right. Why does that make me a tool?

If you're too stupid to get it, then my explaining it to you isn't going to make any difference.

Than prove me wrong and cite scripture where Paul is quoting Peter’s account of the gospel story. In the epistles that is.

There is no instance. I never said there was, moron.

God coming to earth as a man, the death and resurrection, etc. These are themes that are recurring throughout history. Christianity copped a lot of them and its followers started taking them seriously. Only the retelling of the myths was now centered around jesus. If you don’t know this stuff, it’s too bad.

You've bought into a lie because you couldn't reconcile the ideologies of Calvinism, and decided to reject all of Christianity instead of looking inot God, on your own. You're a fool.

No, but one day I’ll pull up to your Dairy Queen in my Chrysler 300C and have you make me an oreo blizzard.

And which Dairy Queen do I work at?

How disgustingly pretentious of you, barbarian.

You're calling me pretentious? Hypocrite.

Please don’t tell me to shut up. You’re the most unpleasant person I’ve run across in a long time. Reading your words makes me tired you superstitious peasant.

What makes me superstitious? If you don't like talking to me, then don't talk to me.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by prodigal

Lighthouse is the perfect example of a Christian who uses his religion as an excuse to over-come his crummy self-image.

I have no crummy self-image.

Let’s look at this:

He is twenty four.
He works at Dairy Queen.
He has no idea what he wants to do with his life (and that’s fine, a lot of people never figure that out, but he finds power and self-righteousness that he hasn’t earned in the real world through his fantasies, that’s bad)

I know what I want to do. I just don't know what I want to do in the meantime, to make the money I need to get started with what I want to do.

He’s over weight

And?

He’s never sex

I assume you mean that I've never had sex. And, since you define sex as "intercourse," I won't argue.

He probably doesn’t have a girlfriend

Currently? No. So?

People find his attitude disagreeable, even if they agree with his theology

Actually, those who agree with my theology don't find my attitude disagreeable.

His behavior is childish and reprehensible

Mirror.

He’s insulting

:baby:

He’s exhibited absolutely no knowledge of how to function in the real world.

This isn't the real world numbnuts.

I on the other hand:

I’m not over weight

And?

Now, I will give LH this much, he’s right, I am incredibly arrogant. But I’ve earned it. I’ve gone out into the world as an incredibly young man and I’ve been kicking butt. I’m making it in a big way, I’m going places. I have a bright future, I’m bursting with youthful exuberance and potential. By the time I’m forty I’ll probably be making six digits a year.

I don’t have to attribute my success to anyone but myself, and all of my believers.

:yawn:

LH has no self-esteem,

Liar.

he has no life,

I have the only Life worth having.

and, compared to me, he is a loser.

And you have the nerve to call me a pr***?


Actually, forget it. You're not worth the time I spend on you.