Another Evidence that Jesus Was a Married Man.

Ben Masada

New member
Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

So you believe Paul's words in his letter to the Romans?

No. That's why I am trying to share with Christians what they do not understand from the lying words of Paul.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

As a converted Jew, sure, I see your desperation. If these kinds of shallow objections are all you got, you should follow Jesus Christ the Messiah. This, is no objection.
Matthew 8:20 Messiah came for a different purpose. Philippians 2 etc. etc. You Jews don't seem to read or understand the New Testament. One of you told me you'd read it 'more than me' but it is obviously not true by these kinds of statements and threads. The distance on the learning curve is large imho, with Jews not seeming to understand even if they are trying to read it, though I'm ever doubtful that is the case especially in light of the cursory.

I would most definitely follow Jesus as the Messiah if he had been the one. But he was not. If not by many other reasons, the fact that the individual cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) Evidence that the Messiah is according to the collective concept of Israel, the People, you can read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Jewish People. Baruch HaShem!
 

Ben Masada

New member
Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

Another Evidence that Jesus was a Married Man.

[quoteNot sure you need to be condescending to her chosen username.

Well, I liked her username. Perhaps because I have just lost Mama sheli. That's the way I used to call her.

You don't know enough to look up words in Strong's so I'll give you some slack: Open up a concordance. If you'd study instead of assume you'd not make mistakes. Some of you TOL Jews don't seem to be interested in studying to show yourselves approved workman 2 Timothy 2:15, such would indicate when you are no longer theological, but political with cavalier propositions.

That's not the point. The truth is that we find too fallacious to appeal to authorities for every thing. We like to think of our own and teach others from first hand. What other authorities have, they have usually learned from the same source. Don't we have a mind of our own to go straight to that source?

It wasn't a 'requirement' but a 'restriction.' A man with more than one wife would be seen as too busy to care for church matters.

I am not discussing the restriction but the requirement. Jesus was required to marry to officiate as a Rabbi. He did not need restrictions to prevent exaggeration with the number of marriages.

In writing to the Corinthians, Paul tells all singles that they are all better to remain single given the time and persecution of the church. You make a lot of rookie mistakes. That is to be expected but why do you insist on interjecting your freshman work as something spectacular? Is there a point to all this? Are you just trying to convince yourself? Looking for material for your own website? I don't see much of a point. Even a Google search quickly addresses some of these odd concerns you've brought to TOL.

There is more suffering during persecutions when we are alone than with a wife. We must consider the feelings of a woman, especially if she is related to us qua wife.
 

chair

Well-known member
...
Also, a marriage would be done by rabbis in the synagogue (generally pharisees and sadducees) ...

This isn't true. Marriage in Jewish law does not require the presence of a Rabbi.

To most Jews, and I think most people at the time, marriage was considered the normal, standard thing that you did. It would be highly unusual for a young man to remain single- especially a teacher. Given the ambiguity of the texts, it would be reasonable to conclude that he was married- that is the default situation of men his age at the time. Unless the texts specifically said he wasn't married- that would be notable.

Except that he was God, son of a virgin, and what Granite called the "icky factor". So some find that idea hard to accept.

Note that nearly every important Biblical figure was married.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I would most definitely follow Jesus as the Messiah if he had been the one. But he was not. If not by many other reasons, the fact that the individual cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) Evidence that the Messiah is according to the collective concept of Israel, the People, you can read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Jewish People. Baruch HaShem!
It may be odd, or it may be that He has genuinely blinded your eyes, but there are times the obvious is so blatantly right in front of you, that it must be a spiritual problem. You just describe "The Resurrection and the Life" to me. He is Jesus Christ, Lord and Messiah, and I am a humble gentile, grafted in by grace and mercy, the dog under the table who gets scraps.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
It may be odd, or it may be that He has genuinely blinded your eyes, but there are times the obvious is so blatantly right in front of you, that it must be a spiritual problem. You just describe "The Resurrection and the Life" to me. He is Jesus Christ, Lord and Messiah, and I am a humble gentile, grafted in by grace and mercy, the dog under the table who gets scraps.

Romans 11:25.

~a fellow dog.
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Note that nearly every important Biblical figure was married.
Well then note some weren't then *(about 10 or so between the Old and New Testaments). Paul, in 1 Corinthians agreed with Jesus' own words that it was best 'not to marry' but "few can accept this." I'd assume you and Ben are not part of this few that 'can accept this.' For both of you, the Y'shua could be a married man, but Jesus Christ was not just a man, but God-in-the-flesh, just as Isaiah and the prophets said He would be. He came but to seek and save that which was lost. The messiah you are 'looking' for didn't have to do that, doesn't have to do that. I believe your traditions have clouded your perception to actuals. Jesus and Paul said that the Jewish eyes would be blinded, but still, I'm hopeful that we here on TOL can make a remnant of you, Elia, Ben and others. We only want you united with Him, we are not trying to just argue with you, but point to you we believe you all have lost your Way.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Jamie, the only other option to deny that Jesus was not married is to acknowledge that he was a liar.
No, that's not true, Ben.

I was curious about that point myself. I found some discussion on the point in the Jewish stack exchange that seems helpful.


מי שחשקה נפשו בתורה תמיד ושגה בה כבן עזאי ונדבק בה כל ימיו ולא נשא אשה אין בידו עון והוא שלא יהיה יצרו מתגבר עליו, אבל אם היה יצרו מתגבר עליו חייב לישא אשה ואפילו היו לו בנים שמא יבוא לידי הרהור.‏ Rambam Hilchot Ishut 15:3

The translation given was that a man who desired to study Torah and who can control his passions does no wrong, but else should marry.

Another response:
"In response to this part of your inquiry, I can answer you that, by the time of Jesus, the title "rabbi" and correlates were not exclusively used in a formal manner as it is today in judaism in reference to authorized clergy. On the contrary, it was sometimes used in reference to non-clergy and non-pharisaic individuals who had acquired a religious following as a means of attributing honor. Also, not all recognized pharisaic authorities (that time's rabbis) had the rabbi title attached to their names, as was, for example, the case for Hillel The Elder. Later rabbinc authorities also don't always have the title, as is the case for the Sage Shmuel, and many others.

All this to say that: even if it could be proven that in rabbinic judaism historically one would have to be married to be a recognized rabbi, it does not follow from it that Jesus was married just because he was called a rabbi, since the title was not exclusively used in this formal manner by that time, being some times attributed to religious leaderships independent of formal training, recognition and, needless to say, any other requirement for official ordination as a rabbi."​

There was a good bit of interesting discussion like that and this:

"It was certainly very common, but I can't find a requirement in the talmud (which was written in the few hundred years around your target timeframe), and I find one talmudic counter-example:

On Kiddushin 71b R. Yehudah of Pumbeditha is asked why his son, R. Yitzchak, is not yet married (and is an adult).

Kiddushin 82a does argue that an unmarried man cannot teach children, but this appears to be a concern about the appearance of impropriety, not a question about his ability or knowledge."​


But what is it to you? I think it's clear from your larger efforts that your aim is simply to discredit and cast doubt, which is true of all those who oppose Jesus. But you won't have any better luck with his reputation than people of your mindset had with his body.

Do you remember what he said in Matthew 5:17-19? That he had not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it down to the letter.
Barnes has it:
"to complete the design; to fill up what was predicted; to accomplish what was intended in them. The word "fulfill" also means sometimes "to teach" or "to inculcate," Colossians 1:25. The law of Moses contained many sacrifices and rites which were designed to shadow forth the Messiah. See the notes at Hebrews 9. These were fulfilled when he came and offered himself a sacrifice to God..."​


Gills Exposition:
"I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. By "the law" is meant the moral law, as appears from the whole discourse following: this he came not to "destroy", or loose men's obligations to, as a rule of walk and conversation, but "to fulfil" it; which he did doctrinally, by setting it forth fully, and giving the true sense and meaning of it; and practically, by yielding perfect obedience to all its commands, whereby he became "the end", the fulfilling end of it."​

And, mind you, that's a commandment upon the man to make the first move by proposing. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law down to the letter, do you prefer that he was a liar rather than a married man? I am serious, lady! What do you say?
I say you're arguing God's word with God, but don't understand either.
 

Old man

New member
No evidence! Are you sure Mama? Let me ask you a question. According to the first three gospels where did Jesus immediately go to when he came out of the waters of the Jordan River soon after John the Baptist baptized him? Let me remind you; to the wilderness, Mama. Don't you remember? He spent 40 days there where he was being tempted to turn stones into bread. Remember now?

Now, let's take a look in the gospel of John. Soon after he came out of the waters, he started recruiting his disciples; on the second day he was seen on his way up to Galilee. On the third day he was getting married in Cana of Galilee where he was being tempted to turn water into wine. Wine of the best kind mind you! (John 2:1,2)

But why he had to get married so soon after the "Mikveh"? Do you wanna know why Mama? Because he was on a rush to have his papers drawn so that he could start his Ministry as a Rabbi. Otherwise, he would not be able to if he was not a married man. Don't forget what Paul reminded Timothy of, that to be a Bishop aka a Rabbi one must be the husband of a wife. (I Tim. 3:1,2) And last but not least, that's a classic evidence that Jesus was a married man. Don't you think so, Mama?

Where on earth do you come up with the claim it was Jesus who got married? All it says is that He was attending a wedding, not getting married. That is adding to the Scriptures what is not there.

Jesus was married to Israel but divorced her - "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." Jer.3:8

There is not one mention whatsoever of Him becoming married in His time on earth in the New Testament. NONE! (foolish non-Scriptural speculation)

The only wedding of Jesus found in the NT is the coming one - "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. and He said unto me, write, blessed are they which are called unto the marriage Supper of the Lamb. And He said unto me, these are the true sayings of God." Rev.19:7-9.

Jesus will come in the clouds, gather His saints, both the resurrected and those yet alive, return to heaven where the marriage Supper of the Lamb will be held and then return and set up His everlasting kingdom.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Desperate Ben strikes again.

It's wasn't a requirement that a Rabbi be married.

Besides, Rabbi in context meant "teacher". Jesus wasn't a professional Rabbi and had not attended the Rabbinical schools.

The Son of God didn't need to be taught by any man.
 

brewmama

New member
No evidence! Are you sure Mama? Let me ask you a question. According to the first three gospels where did Jesus immediately go to when he came out of the waters of the Jordan River soon after John the Baptist baptized him? Let me remind you; to the wilderness, Mama. Don't you remember? He spent 40 days there where he was being tempted to turn stones into bread. Remember now?

Now, let's take a look in the gospel of John. Soon after he came out of the waters, he started recruiting his disciples; on the second day he was seen on his way up to Galilee. On the third day he was getting married in Cana of Galilee where he was being tempted to turn water into wine. Wine of the best kind mind you! (John 2:1,2)

But why he had to get married so soon after the "Mikveh"? Do you wanna know why Mama? Because he was on a rush to have his papers drawn so that he could start his Ministry as a Rabbi. Otherwise, he would not be able to if he was not a married man. Don't forget what Paul reminded Timothy of, that to be a Bishop aka a Rabbi one must be the husband of a wife. (I Tim. 3:1,2) And last but not least, that's a classic evidence that Jesus was a married man. Don't you think so, Mama?

:rotfl:

No, I do not find ANY of your "evidence" compelling. Rather, I see only that you twist Scripture to your own design, and I really don't know why. As a Jew, I realize you don't recognize the Christ, but why you would want to present such a strange theory I don't know.

Peace.
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Neither side has much of a leg to stand on.
I don't mean to overtly slam you, but I would have not thought you a Christian then, just an 'attender' in an audience. You missed/miss a very large amount of important doctrine that no "Christian" should. Most of the time you are woefully lacking in doctrinal/scriptural knowledge.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
We are not here talking about the Greek etymology of the term "church" but the Christian Church Paul founded in Antioch and gave origin to Christianity. (Acts 11:26)

If you are referring to the church of God then you are referring to the ecclesia.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Neither side has much of a leg to stand on.
But there's not really an equality of position. One the one hand you have speculation and a conclusion not grounded in necessity. On the other you have the note of an absence of evidence to support the assertion/speculation.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
But there's not really an equality of position. One the one hand you have speculation and a conclusion not grounded in necessity. On the other you have the note of an absence of evidence to support the assertion/speculation.

Which is a wordy way of saying "ewwwwwww," which for you guys is what this really comes down to.

Is it necessary? No. (Neither is a lot of what's actually written in there.) But the speculation adds a level of tragedy and pathos to the tale. To say nothing of humanity.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Another Evidence That Jesus Was a Married Man - I Timothy 3:2

A Bishop, Teacher, Deacon aka a Rabbi MUST be blameless and the husband of one wife. He shall be able to rule his own house and keep his children in submission, for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of his church?

A Bishop aka a Rabbi or Teacher MUST be the husband of one wife. Nicodemus, a famous Pharisee went once to Jesus and said, "Rabbi, we know that you are a Teacher." (John 3:2) So, Jesus was a Rabbi and Teacher akin to the position of a Bishop. Hence according to Paul, it was a MUST that a Rabbi, Teacher or Bishop be the husband of one wife. If not by any other reason, to keep himself blameless of any unnecessary temptation.

According to Paul, a syllogism is built to illustrate the facts above:
1. First premise: A Teacher must be married;
2. Second premise: Jesus was a Teacher;
3. Resultant premise: Therefore, Jesus was married.

As Paul never married he must have made of himself the exception to the above syllogism because he was of the kind to teach: "Do as I say but not as I do because I am a sinner too."(Rom. 7:25)


You are like a drowning man grasping at straws to stay afloat.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
According to Paul, a syllogism is built to illustrate the facts above:
1. First premise: A Teacher must be married;
2. Second premise: Jesus was a Teacher;
3. Resultant premise: Therefore, Jesus was married.

This has to be the dumbest excuse for a syllogism I have seem!
You would have to have a first premise, "all teachers are married" you dope. Take a class in logic, if you have the mental capacity?

Yet it is not all bad, terrible example of a syllogism, yes, although there is some truth here. I teacher, in the church, should be married. Catholics lost out on this when they changed from including married men, to caring more about earthly church wealth. That is why so many are homos became priests.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Which is a wordy way of saying "ewwwwwww," which for you guys is what this really comes down to.
Well, not for me. But it seems like something fairly important to omit. We know Jesus had brothers and sisters. We know he had a temper, could be moved to weeping, had a sense of humor, if a dry one. A wife would be a fairly important thing to leave out, especially as he moves from his normal life and toward the cross. And there'd be no reason to hide it, especially given the customs of his day.
 
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