Abortion, the Pro-Life Stance, and God's Law. Abortion is Never Okay.

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I do not know who the they is in what you have said here.

Shalom.

Ha-ha! My bad!! I am referring to the person genuineoriginal as "they" sometimes because I don't know if that person is male or female and I don't want to offend them. I will start using he/she.

Peace.

 

[Stuu]

And so far there is no Scripture that specifically says that everything we need to live by will be written in the Scriptures.

Right, so you disagree with the title of the thread then.

Stuart

 

[genuineoriginal]

Shouldn't women have an absolute choice about what happens to their own bodies, and their lives?

No, that would be stupid.

But specifically, why should we allow a pregnant woman to have her foetus killed?

We shouldn't condone such a wicked desire.

 

[Stuu]

Thank God!



So at least we can agree that an abortion is a killing.

Why do you think that that killing is ok?

Because it is the necessary consequence of humans having the absolute right to medical consent.

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Does the bible say that abortion is murder?

Stuart

You called "ending a pregnancy" a "killing".

Well, what is being killed?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Ha-ha! My bad!! I am referring to the person genuineoriginal as "they" sometimes because I don't know if that person is male or female and I don't want to offend them. I will start using he/she.

Peace.

You can use "he".
(Since my avatar shows two beings, "they" was not a bad choice. :chuckle

 

[Stuu]

Not true. There is no "desperate use of semantics". Women are in danger with an ectopic pregnancy can be in great danger. The purpose of the surgery is to save her life. Not to kill the child. The death of the child, in that case, was an unintended secondary effect of the efforts to save the mom.

I think you will find that when an ultrasound shows an ectopic pregnancy that is going to end badly, the doctor will know that the only option results in the death of the foetus, and that procedure will be intentional, whatever the semantics of the description. You are really trying to shift opinion by use of language, in shifting every necessary procedure in the direction of 'regretful'. But that is just an argument from semantics, because it is no different from "That foetus is going to kill you, so we must kill it". That's the reality of it.

And that situation is light years away from your idea of: Abortions are "necessary" whenever a woman "feels like it".

I agree. Well, perhaps not light years away, but there are many reasons for having an abortion, and some of them are not great, like failure to understand and use contraception repeatedly. The reason this is bad is because every medical procedure carries its risk, and this is a risky form of contraception, to put it mildly.

Answer this question please: What are the unborn?

Animals that are in gestation, I guess.

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I do not know what to call it but my understanding is that I should not call it an error.

I was born by C-section but I do not know if it was to save my life.

Shalom.

Jacob

I meant "error" in that something went wrong. A child is supposed to develop in the uterus if everything goes right. I didn't mean "error" in any other sense than that.

Did you ever ask your mom or dad why you were born by C-section? That is sortof common and the people I know have told me that the baby wasn't turned the right way or something so it would be too difficult to give birth through the birth canal. I mean, that isn't super rare, I don't think.

Peace.

 

[Stuu]

Then you are a fool.

Fools, in the manner of court jesters, for example, are the ones that speak the truth to the king.

No abortion done in an abortion clinic is done to save a life.

That's obviously wrong, to judge by the number of women living in Ireland who have died for lack of an abortion, or a safe abortion.

But I don't know how you could possibly know what the proportions of each reason are cited for having an abortion. Clearly you deny one of them. On what basis?

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

Leviticus 201:5 1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. 4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: 5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.​

Er, huh?

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

So you believe a doctor should perform an 'accidental' abortion in the case where it is unavoidable?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the abbreviation 'G.O.'.

Stuart

Your playing with words is kind of cute but completely illogical and so has no meaning, really.

There is nothing "accidental" about a doctor performing an abortion. No offense to you personally but that sentence of yours just sounds absolutely stupid.

Sorry. I got tired of typing genuineoriginal so I went with G.O.

 

[Stuu]

I do not believe that a medical procedure, should one exist, was ever discussed. There are different kinds of abortion. Abortion has been performed in a Hospital, where innocent life should be protected. Abortions have been performed somewhere that were not a medical procedure. I suspect that there have been abortion clinics in the United States of America and in Israel though I am uncertain about that.

Injuring or killing an unborn child is discussed. The test for adultery is not designed to destroy the life of an unborn child.

So what are we discussing now, Numbers?

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

You're the one who asked for scripture, doofus. I'm just giving you what you asked for.

Well, look on the internet and find all the counter-arguments to yours.

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Because, when religious zealots are ranting outside an abortion clinic, they don't make much distinction between the different cases walking past them. So how would you feel in that situation? Your life is in danger and about to be saved because a foetus must be killed for you to live, and there are people shouting at you, condemning you in your time of desperate need?

Stuart

In 1967, Dr. Alan Guttmacher wrote: "Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought forth through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and, if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save, life."

Stuart, you are still light years away from abortion being "necessary" whenever a women "feels like it."

 

[Jacob]

I meant "error" in that something went wrong. A child is supposed to develop in the uterus if everything goes right. I didn't mean "error" in any other sense than that.

Did you ever ask your mom or dad why you were born by C-section? That is sortof common and the people I know have told me that the baby wasn't turned the right way or something so it would be too difficult to give birth through the birth canal. I mean, that isn't super rare, I don't think.

Peace.

I do not know.

 

[Stuu]

Yup. There are exceptions. You basically mention warfare and self-defense above. And that is going to be how you try to justify killing a completely innocent baby?

No. But it wasn't me claiming that killing is wrong in an absolute sense.

Let's me see if I get that right: "Since there is killing in warfare, and in self-defense...well, that's it. A woman can kill her baby just because she feels like it." That is really lame logic, man. Really, really lame.

I agree. Which is why I didn't say that.

You like Scripture references so I'm gonna ask you for one.

Can you show me where Scripture says it is ok to kill a baby "just because you feel like it?" Or maybe somewhere where God says, "It's ok to kill the baby in a womb if you feel like it?"

No. But it is not me trying to defend the title of the thread. Can you defend it? How is it 'God's Law' that abortion is specifically banned?

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I'll just reply by citing the entire internet, which discusses the merits of the interpretation of scripture on most topics.

Take that!

Stuart

That's a cop out Stuart.

 

[Stuu]

That's a cop out Stuart.

Do you think it helps the thread that someone just cites a website without referring to a specific argument? I think that was the cop out.

Stuart

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

So then, what of a woman who, suffering severe mental illness and forced by you to take a pregnancy to term, is very likely to attempt suicide?

Stuart

You are suggesting that is better to kill an innocent person because if I don't I might commit suicide?

Can I do that when my child is 1 year old too? Why or why not?

 

[Stuu]

In 1967, Dr. Alan Guttmacher wrote: "Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought forth through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and, if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save, life."

Stuart, you are still light years away from abortion being "necessary" whenever a women "feels like it."

...almost any patient.

Stuart