Abortion, the Pro-Life Stance, and God's Law. Abortion is Never Okay.

Jacob

Jacob

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Stuu said:
Does the bible say that abortion is murder?

Stuart
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The Bible does not speak of abortion. We know this, that abortion is murder, by extension of the commandment prohibiting murder. I spoke from or quoted or provided the first prohibition or negative commandment (a negative commandment or prohibition is a commandment of the form You Shall Not, or, Do Not) from the Torah specifically Bereishit - Genesis. God's name is found in this book though God's name had not yet been revealed to Moses. What then is The Law of Moses, the covenant, or the Ten Commandments from which we find or have the commandment You shall not kill; which is spelled out in the Torah complete with what the punishment should be?

Shalom.

Jacob
 
JudgeRightly

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Stuu said:
So what? There are ectopic pregnancies that aren't survivable, unless the foetus is intentionally killed.

Stuart
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You're missing the point, Stuart. Abortion is not required for an ectopic pregnancy for both the mother and the baby to survive.

And no, not intentionally killed, like you're trying to imply. Go read the link I provided.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hey Jacob.

Both genuineoriginal and I agree with you. Save both lives always if possible.

But, you have to acknowledge that there are situations where that might not be possible. For example, in an ectopic pregnancy the child is developing outside of the uterus. That is an error. Babies are not meant to develop (and indeed, cannot)outside of the uterus. And that is a very dangerous situation for the life of the mother. Typically, the surgery to save the mother's life involves removing the fallopian tube. The baby does not survive that. But it is not an intentional killing of the baby. It is an intentional saving of the mother's life. There is no C-section possibility to save that baby, either.

That is a tragic case but it does explain what genuineoriginal is talking about.

Peace.
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I do not know what to call it but my understanding is that I should not call it an error.

I was born by C-section but I do not know if it was to save my life.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
S

Stuu

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
I think G.O. is including unintentional deaths (like miscarriages) as an example of unavoidable deaths.

Those are not "necessary" as in "have to happen". They are "unavoidable" as in "accidental. There is nothing you could do about it."

Peace.
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So you believe a doctor should perform an 'accidental' abortion in the case where it is unavoidable?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the abbreviation 'G.O.'.

Stuart
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Stuu said:
I see you have the whole thing worked out in your head. If a doctor discovers that an ectopic pregnancy is going to kill the woman, then the killing of the foetus isn't intentional, even though the doctor begins a procedure that intends to remove the foetus, thus killing it.
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Your example is a good one.
Stuu said:
You are making a desperate use of semantics, one that in the end will result in people being unnecessarily distressed, but not you of course.
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Why would anyone be distressed about whether the doctor is only trying to kill the baby or whether the doctor is trying to save a woman's life?
 
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Stuu

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JudgeRightly said:
You're missing the point, Stuart. Abortion is not required for an ectopic pregnancy for both the mother and the baby to survive.

And no, not intentionally killed, like you're trying to imply. Go read the link I provided.
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I think you are ignorant about ectopic pregnancy. I read your website during a previous discussion, and it is ignorant too.

Stuart
 
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Stuu

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Jacob said:
The Bible does not speak of abortion. We know this, that abortion is murder, by extension of the commandment prohibiting murder. I spoke from or quoted or provided the first prohibition or negative commandment (a negative commandment or prohibition is a commandment of the form You Shall Not, or, Do Not) from the Torah specifically Bereishit - Genesis. God's name is found in this book though God's name had not yet been revealed to Moses. What then is The Law of Moses, the covenant, or the Ten Commandments from which we find or have the commandment You shall not kill; which is spelled out in the Torah complete with what the punishment should be?

Shalom.

Jacob
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I think the bible does speak about abortion, in Numbers and Exodus for example.

Stuart
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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Stuu said:
When a woman decides that she would like to end a pregnancy. When else?

Stuart
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Hmmm. I wonder how that logic of yours works with other areas of life?

Abortion is "necessary" when a woman decides she "would like to".

Could you explain why there was an end slavery in the U.S.? Slavery was legal.
Shouldn't we have said or say:

Slavery is "necessary" whenever a plantation owner decides they "would like to" have slaves?

Why do we allow women to vote? Shouldn't we have said or say:

Forbidding women to vote is "necessary" whenever men decide "they would like to" have it that way?

Your term "end a pregnancy" is killing a developing human being.

So your statement really is saying: "When a woman decides that she would like to kill a developing human being."

Tell me. Why should we allow one person to kill another human being?

Peace.
 
JudgeRightly

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Stuu said:
I think you are ignorant about ectopic pregnancy. I read your website during a previous discussion, and it is ignorant too.

Stuart
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Saying I'm ignorant about something doesn't make me ignorant, Stuart. It does, however, indicate, especially since that's all you said (about both me and the website), that you don't have a response for that argument. If you do, then please show how an abortion is necessary for an ectopic pregnancy.
 
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Stuu

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genuineoriginal said:
Your example is a good one.

Why would anyone be distressed about whether the doctor is only trying to kill the baby or whether the doctor is trying to save a woman's life?
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Because, when religious zealots are ranting outside an abortion clinic, they don't make much distinction between the different cases walking past them. So how would you feel in that situation? Your life is in danger and about to be saved because a foetus must be killed for you to live, and there are people shouting at you, condemning you in your time of desperate need?

Stuart
 
JudgeRightly

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Stuu said:
Because, when religious zealots are ranting outside an abortion clinic, they don't make much distinction between the different cases walking past them. So how would you feel in that situation? Your life is in danger and about to be saved because a foetus must be killed for you to live, and there are people condemning you in your time of desperate need?

Stuart
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Life of the mother is never justification for killing an unborn baby.

If it is, please provide an example of such.

Ectopic pregnancies are survivable (for both mother and baby) almost 100% of the time, and abortion (the intentional killing of the baby) is never required.
 
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Stuu

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JudgeRightly said:
A murderer loses his right to life when he commits murder. A baby is innocent, guilty of no crime.
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That sounds very arbitrary. You are making the distinction on 'innocence'?

You must have opposed every war in which that the US has ever been engaged.

Stuart
 
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