glassjester
Well-known member
Never. No one should be deliberately killed. Not the mother. Not the fetus.
To do so is unjust.
Abortion///cont.
- Thread starter quip
- Start date
Never. No one should be deliberately killed. Not the mother. Not the fetus.
To do so is unjust.
:doh:
You've just emotionally backslid past this entire discussion.
....a chronic waste of time. :sigh:
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Quip,
Hi! Long time no see...:wave2:
May I ask why you think the doctor's priority should always be with the mother?
What makes one life more valuable over another?
glassjester
Well-known member
And you've failed to grasp that if someone unintentionally dies, while another is saved, a deliberate killing has not taken place.
glassjester
Well-known member
He's arguing that because the mother sometimes is the only one that can be saved, her life must have some greater value.
It's rubbish.
Sans medical reasons/complications how may a doctor justify an exception?
glassjester
Well-known member
Sans medical reasons or complications, neither one is going to die.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
An exception to what?
glassjester
Well-known member
To making the mother's life a higher priority than the child's.
When medically possible the doctor's priority is always to secure the mother's life in such cases.
Do you agree? If not show me an exception.
glassjester
Well-known member
It's a moot point. You agreed earlier that the seemingly preferential treatment of the mother does not necessarily imply unequal value.
You'll need a different argument.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Obviously we will come to different conclusions based on our worldviews.
Mine is this:
The plain teaching of the Bible is that all life is sacred equally and that life begins at conception.
There are those who argue otherwise; in my opinion, in vain. The Bible uses the words man, woman, child, son, daughter, baby, interchangeably for born and unborn.
So it really boils down to the same old thing every time. Did God author the Bible and deposit it with us for our instruction?
The following anecdote certainly proves nothing, but it is interesting, at least, to me.
My grandfather emigrated from Ontario, Canada to the U.S. somewhere around 1860. He heard President Taft was giving away farmland and received a grant (I still have it) for 200 acres in what would become the state of South Dakota. Life was hard on the plains and winters doubly so. He married late in life and in 1895 his younger wife gave birth to his only son, my father. The mother died that same day at home on the farm, Dec. 6, 1895, in childbirth. My father went on to serve in WW1, married and had a son and daughter, divorced and married my mother. I was the only child of that union. I became a Christian, married and had a son and daughter who both became Christians and I now have 8 grandchildren who are being taught the Word of God as truth.
I have often wondered many things; in particular, what would have happened if a doctor had been called in to examine her the day before the birth. Would attempts to save her resulted in my father's death? Would they have recognized that she would likely die if she gave birth in her condition and decided to prevent the birth by killing the child?
I know one thing for sure. Any mother worth her calling as a giver of life, would give her life for her child.
This is great. You have every right to your specific moral views regarding the unborn and abortion. While I respect your view (I likewise respect the right to differ), as such and unto itself, this is no argument against the universal proscription against abortion.
I hope you can see this where strong visceral reactions against abortion constrict some from certain facts. :e4e:
glassjester
Well-known member
Can you demonstrate, via "certain facts," why a woman's "right" to not be pregnant outweighs a child's right to life?
Eagles Wings
New member
This really is the bottom line, isn't it?
A friend of mine was told to abort her baby due to a cancer that was growing in her abdomen. She put off chemo and delivered a beautiful baby girl. She had cancer treatment and is alive today and healthy. That was over 10 years ago.
The hope of the Christian is in our Lord, in these dire circumstances.
Eagles Wings
New member
Few abortions are performed due to "hard" cases.
97% of abortions are done for social and economics reasons.
"Abortion is not needed to save the life or health of the mother: Because of advances in medicine, there are currently no maternal medical conditions for which abortion is the only cure. Even leading pro-abortionists have recognized this fact for decades. Dr. Alan Guttmacher, former President of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, did more to promote and spread abortion-on-demand throughout the world than any other individual." (Human Life International)
Alan Guttmacher, “Abortion Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow,” The Case for Legalized Abortion Now (Berkeley: Diablo Books, 1967), 9.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Well said EW.
To Quip,
I do disagree with any militant or overt attempts to oppose those who see things differently.
We are not at war with other ideologies except in the ideological sense.
But the Christian must be involved and use every opportunity short of violence to oppose evil.
Proverbs 31:8-9KJV
For the Christian there is no difference between the born and the unborn.
If we are repelled by the atrocities of the Third Reich, that repulsion should be the same for the unborn.
We have lost our sensibilities for the innocent.
What high ideal is served by murdering the helpless?
Is that not what we hate about Isis?
EW is right.
The overwhelming majority of abortions are performed as a method of birth control.
There is no difference between this and racial genocide.
The problem is that everyone wants to talk about the 2 or 3 percent instead of the reality.
Let's fix abortion on demand and then talk about what's left over.
"Why" a woman aborts is outside the fact that it is permissible for her to do so.
I've done that very thing for you ...several times. "..strong visceral reactions against abortion constrict some from certain facts." :e4e:
