A problem with open theism (HOF thread)

[Nathon Detroit]

So you deny that God can know what choices that we will make?
According to dictionary.com omniscient means: Having total knowledge; knowing everything

Does God control His own knowldge or is it controlled by dictionary.com?

God knows with perfect accuracy every decision that will be made.

When does He know this? How far in advance?

You are stating that man does not have freewill, therefore do you believe that in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve had no choice but to sin? I believe that God gave them a choice but already knew what the outcome would be.

That isn't what I am stating at all but I don't have time to review it all for you.

I am simply pointing out that true freewill and perfect exhaustive foreknowledge are incompatible.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I do not believe that God does not experience time, do you?

The idea that time is some thing (space between words intended) is illogical and not biblical.

Try to keep up, Knight......
I said God is not restricted to time and is not a linear entity!
Humans and all created beings are.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Except that my question is: How would He know how to direct us if he doesn't know what's going to happen when we get there?

God isn't giving us directions to the grocery store.

God's will for us is outlined in the Bible.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Try to keep up, Knight......
I said God is not restricted to time and is not a linear entity!
Humans and all created beings are.

I know what you said... and I completely disagree! It is you who can't seem to keep up.

There is NO evidence whatsoever that God does not exist rationally i.e., lineraly.

 

[Mr. 5020]

God isn't giving us directions to the grocery store.

God's will for us is outlined in the Bible.

So, can we count Him for relevant issues? Such as, "God, show me which job I should take."

 

[godrulz]

May I jump in here? It seems that your question is an impossibility. God could not have perfect foreknowledge that he did get in the car because he did not get in the car. God would have had foreknowledge that he did get in the car because that is what happened. Clete would not be forced to get in the car, but God would already know which choice he would freely make. To say that God's foreknowledge is not perfect is to say that God is not perfect.

God's knows the past and present perfectly. He correctly knows reality as it is. Thus, He must know the future as possible, not actual. It becomes certain/actual and an object of knowledge when the potential future becomes the fixed past. Some of the future that He will bring to pass by His ability is knowable (e.g. that the Messiah would come and die, rise, and return). The Open View affirms God's perfect omniscience (knowing all that is knowable...to not know a nothing is not a limitation).

 

[Mr. 5020]

I know what you said... and I completely disagree! It is you who can't seem to keep up.

There is NO evidence whatsoever that God does not exist rationally i.e., lineraly.

What about the "day is as a thousand years" reference?

 

[drbrumley]

God has no need to foreknow anything but His own plans. He determines His own plans, then makes them happen. On the other hand, God does not say He foreknows the human choices of man. His foreknowledge is very explicit.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So, can we count Him for relevant issues? Such as, "God, show me which job I should take."

God isn't going to micromanage your life for you.

He doesn't want to pick your job for you no more than He wants to pick your clothes for you each day.

 

[Jeremiah85]

See post 173. If you can attempt to answer the Isiah passage, please give it a spin.

It is a rhetorical question. God knew what choice Israel would make, however, in this passage he is pointing out to Israel what their mistake was the same way a mother might ask her child "If I told you to take out the trash then why has it not been done?" The mother is not truly asking why the trash has not been done, but is pointing out that her instructions should have been obeyed.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I know what you said... and I completely disagree! It is you who can't seem to keep up.

There is NO evidence whatsoever that God does not exist rationally i.e., lineraly.

Really? :think:
So God is limited to our frame of measured time?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

What about the "day is as a thousand years" reference?

What about it?

God is eternal - He has lived and infinite amount of time into the past and will exist an infinite amount of time into the future.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Really? :think:

Really!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Robin, is God still suffering on the cross? Not metaphorically but in reality.

 

[Agape4Robin]

Really!

:darwinsm:

 

[Agape4Robin]

Robin, is God still suffering on the cross? Not metaphorically but in reality.

:nono:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

:nono:

So that event is over for God? It's in God's past?

 

[Jeremiah85]

Does God control His own knowldge or is it controlled by dictionary.com?

You first used the term omniscient which does not appear in scripture so don't be surprised when I use a dictionary to define it. Would you care to answer my question please?

When does He know this? How far in advance?

Forever

That isn't what I am stating at all but I don't have time to review it all for you.

Glad to hear it.

I am simply pointing out that true freewill and perfect exhaustive foreknowledge are incompatible.

...with your beliefs.

 

[Agape4Robin]

So that event is over for God? It's in God's past?

The crucifixon was like a big rock being thrown into a lake, and the ripples are still affecting us.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The crucifixon was like a big rock being thrown into a lake, and the ripples are still affecting us.

That is an answer to some other question. A question I didn't ask.

I asked...

So that event (God suffering on the cross) is over for God? It's in God's past?