A Peculiar Kind of Gospel
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OMEGA
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book of life
book of life
Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
book of life
Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Satan attempted to sift Peter. Yielding to temptation is a volitional thing. Hebrews talked about those who trusted Christ but then apostasized back to Judaism. Paul warned about false teachers who would sway the faithful into heresy. The will, intellect, emotions are involved. Jesus warned that even the elect could be deceived and that we are to watch and guard the faith. Jude warned of the dangers of apostasy and false teaching. Some evangelicals have become Mormons, renouncing the biblical Christ in the process.
If salvation is a love relationship and not a physical change in our physiology, then it must be freely entered into and maintained with God's grace. The people of God wandered from Him to follow false gods. This is a possibility unless we no longer have free moral agency.
Re: book of life
Re: book of life
Though primarily about those who reject Christ, it is possible for a human (pre or post conversion) to deny Christ. For a believer to do so, it would have been better if they never knew Him. There judgment will be greater due to defiance against great light. In Revelation, some believers will not persevere to the end.
Re: book of life
Though primarily about those who reject Christ, it is possible for a human (pre or post conversion) to deny Christ. For a believer to do so, it would have been better if they never knew Him. There judgment will be greater due to defiance against great light. In Revelation, some believers will not persevere to the end.
God alone knows the heart and mind. It varies individual by individual. He alone can judge accurately. If someone renounces their Christian commitment and decides to be a Satanist and then kills themselves due to their new bondage, I would say that they squandered the precious gift of salvation.
Sozo
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You still have no clue what salvation is.
I am neither a Calvinist, an Enyartist, or an Open Theist, and once again, I am telling you that ANYONE who believes that salvation can be lost is not saved. The Holy Spirit will not lie to the children of God.
They were never saved if they believed that salvation can be lost.
A child will believe what a parent or teacher tells them to believe. The Holy Spirit will not lie to children who have accepted Christ and are saved, but you will.
Once again, that would be you.
You're stupid.
Sozo
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I doubt that, you will still keep trampling underfoot of the blood of Jesus as insufficient to save completely until you come to Him by faith.
It's not a "Calvinist" doctrine. It is what the bible teaches. Salvation is life. You do not have life, so you do not understand the things of God.
The blood of Christ is sufficient to save completely. It is the grounds for salvation. Repentant faith is a condition of salvation. God does not just zap people willy nilly with salvation. Jn. 3:16 Faith is a condition. The type of faith that saves is not a one time act followed by hatred and unbelief. It is a faith that continues into the future. If someone ceases trusting Christ and goes back to trusting their own works or false religion (Hebrews; Galatians), then they are no longer a believer. They are now an unbeliever. Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God.
Your understanding of the life of Christ is valid, but it is not the only truth about the nature of salvation. You have negated other valid truths and ended up with OSAS despite evidence to the contrary. Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.
Regardless, most mature, intelligent Christians recognize one can be a true follower of Christ whether you believe in OSAS or an Arminian perspective. You claim you are not Calvinistic, Armininian, or Open Theist. Too bad, but your belief systems tend to fall into one of these categories. We all claim to be biblical, but apparently God honors faith in Christ more than theological excellence. Some of the issues debated here were not even issues in the first century yet they were saved. Working through theological perspectives are not always heaven-hell issues except in the world of cults.
Jesus is the Savior. We are saved by faith in Him and His finished work. Quit reducing the Gospel to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints which has been debated for centuries and is one of the more popular topics on Christian forums on the internet. You are one of the few people I have ever heard say that the OSAS teaching is a condition of salvation. Perhaps you do not have the mind of God on this one (unless the majority of born again Christians in the world are deceived by the devil and not really saved because they do not see OSAS taught in Scripture. Have you never read books by Baptists who give multiple verses and sound exegesis to question TULIP and OSAS?).
Who else here thinks that OSAS is a condition of salvation rather than faith in Christ alone?
Your understanding of the life of Christ is valid, but it is not the only truth about the nature of salvation. You have negated other valid truths and ended up with OSAS despite evidence to the contrary. Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.
Regardless, most mature, intelligent Christians recognize one can be a true follower of Christ whether you believe in OSAS or an Arminian perspective. You claim you are not Calvinistic, Armininian, or Open Theist. Too bad, but your belief systems tend to fall into one of these categories. We all claim to be biblical, but apparently God honors faith in Christ more than theological excellence. Some of the issues debated here were not even issues in the first century yet they were saved. Working through theological perspectives are not always heaven-hell issues except in the world of cults.
Jesus is the Savior. We are saved by faith in Him and His finished work. Quit reducing the Gospel to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints which has been debated for centuries and is one of the more popular topics on Christian forums on the internet. You are one of the few people I have ever heard say that the OSAS teaching is a condition of salvation. Perhaps you do not have the mind of God on this one (unless the majority of born again Christians in the world are deceived by the devil and not really saved because they do not see OSAS taught in Scripture. Have you never read books by Baptists who give multiple verses and sound exegesis to question TULIP and OSAS?).
Who else here thinks that OSAS is a condition of salvation rather than faith in Christ alone?
Post # 436. Are you calling me a liar or do you want to recant your post? I have exposed the error of your thinking and you call me names?! It is impossible to be a Christian in the end if you do not have a genuine faith at death. Lighthouse claims that if a person dies without faith, then they must never have been a Christian. I personally feel it is more biblical to affirm that truth in addition to the other possibility that someone who once was an unbeliever came to faith and then regressed back to unbelief (Hebrews).
OSAS cannot be a condition of salvation, can it? It is possible to be a believer and hold to unconditional eternal security (OSAS) or a more Arminian position (apostasy is a possibility...Hebrews 6).
Play nice. You are trying my patience with your intolerant views. Learn to discern the core of Christianity from peripheral issues that have been debated for centuries by God-loving, God-fearing believers, educated and uneducated. Sozo has not cornered the market on papal authority (you know what I mean) and infallibility in every nuance of Christian doctrine.
Sozo
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Originally posted by Sozo
It is impossible to be a Christian and believe that salvation can be lost or forfeited.
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"
No child of God will believe what is contrary to the truth regarding salvation, that does not make it a "condition" to be saved, but the result of being saved.
Everything is a work to you, godrulz. You don't believe that anyone has the truth, and so you wander aimlessly collecting religious jargon, cliches, and philosophical fables to fill your empty life.
You can hide behind all your religious babbling to everyone else here, but I am more than aware of the fact that it is all a facade. You don't fool me, and you don't fool God. No matter how much you try and convince others that you are in the faith, you will still hear those painful words... "I NEVER KNEW YOU"!
More evidence of the fact that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you...
I will post this for others, because you will deny the truth anyway.
The book of Hebrews is a letter to Hebrews. Why? Because the Hebrews had a history with God. They had experienced all that God is, and had been entrusted with the oracles of God, experienced the reality of the Holy Spirit, the power of God, and the writer is telling them that all of what God has done through them culminated in the person of Christ. However, the writer of Hebrews is warning them of the danger of not going where God has taken them. They must enter into His rest. They must accept that Jesus is the reality, and not the things that they still hold to.
You would be wise, godrulz, to take the advice to put aside the things that God was doing through the Jews, and to come to Christ. Instead, you have adopted what God was doing through the Jews, and have added it to Christ. Hebrews 6 is speaking directly to those who teach what you teach. You teach ongoing repentance, and have reduced the blood of Jesus to that of a bull or goat.
It is impossible to be a Christian and believe that salvation can be lost or forfeited.
You have a serious problem with understanding simple statements. You turned what I said into a condition. I never said that, and what I said does not even imply that. Someone who is in Christ will know the truth. Someone who is in Christ will know that they are a child of God.
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"
No child of God will believe what is contrary to the truth regarding salvation, that does not make it a "condition" to be saved, but the result of being saved.
Everything is a work to you, godrulz. You don't believe that anyone has the truth, and so you wander aimlessly collecting religious jargon, cliches, and philosophical fables to fill your empty life.
You can hide behind all your religious babbling to everyone else here, but I am more than aware of the fact that it is all a facade. You don't fool me, and you don't fool God. No matter how much you try and convince others that you are in the faith, you will still hear those painful words... "I NEVER KNEW YOU"!
More evidence of the fact that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you...
I will post this for others, because you will deny the truth anyway.
The book of Hebrews is a letter to Hebrews. Why? Because the Hebrews had a history with God. They had experienced all that God is, and had been entrusted with the oracles of God, experienced the reality of the Holy Spirit, the power of God, and the writer is telling them that all of what God has done through them culminated in the person of Christ. However, the writer of Hebrews is warning them of the danger of not going where God has taken them. They must enter into His rest. They must accept that Jesus is the reality, and not the things that they still hold to.
You would be wise, godrulz, to take the advice to put aside the things that God was doing through the Jews, and to come to Christ. Instead, you have adopted what God was doing through the Jews, and have added it to Christ. Hebrews 6 is speaking directly to those who teach what you teach. You teach ongoing repentance, and have reduced the blood of Jesus to that of a bull or goat.
Most mature people would find this offensive and a swear substitute. Our speech is to be Christ-like, not crass and crude.
You called me a liar. I quoted your exact words that cannot be misunderstood. I pressed it to the logical conclusion and stated the facts in a way that makes your gospel dependent on one of the biggest theological controversies in the church (OSAS, Calvinism vs Arminianism).
Would you like to defend yourself? Apologize? Get a lawyer? Sweep it under the carpet?
Rudeness is not the way to persuade people to a better understanding of truth. Communication is a responsibility we have to clearly present truth to unbelievers or edify and teach believers. There is an effective, respectful way and a rude, ineffectual way. I hope someone rebukes me when I am wrong or rude. Glorify God. I would like to hear and see sozo's phrases and rantings broadcast at a church service or the bema seat. I think it would be more entertaining that Letterman's Top 10. On the other hand, I share my feelings because I believe it grieves the Spirit as it does my spirit.
Dude...will we ever get along?
If this is the post, I honestly did not see it before I posted mine. I searched back to find what post you are referring to and then stumbled on this one. I had written my subsequent posts without seeing this one. This is not deception nor deliberate coverup. Once again, you judge based on wrong information. My intent is never to be deceptive or lie.
Someone who is in Christ will know they are a child of God. I believe and tell other people the verse in I Jn. 5 that we can know we have eternal life if we are in Christ. The theoretical issue is if it is possible to be in Christ= biblical assurance and then at a later date renounce Christ/apostasize= no longer have the promises or assurances because a change in relationship/standing has subsequently occurred.
I certainly believe we can know the truth. I just believe TULIP is not biblical. Calvinists assume this is biblical truth. I exegete in a way that makes me lean away from their conclusions.
Faith is not a work. Faith is not a one-time act. You seem to think that an ongoing, vibrant faith rather than a one time sinner's prayer is a work. You are arguing against a straw man, because it would make you look bad to admit you are misrepresenting my views.
The Spirit does bear witness that we are children of God. I believe this and have full assurance of my salvation. However, if a believer returns to Judaism and animal sacrifices, at some point they will not have their former assurance but will only sense God's conviction for them to return to the Lamb of God (Hebrews 6).
Judge Sozo. You were dead wrong about me seeing your post. I honestly did not read it before posting my subsequent ones. Now that I read it, it still does not change the implications of your isolated statement that I could be lost because I simply believe Judas left the faith. Many new Christians doubt their salvation and assurance. This is a weakness of hyper-Arminianism. This doubt does not prove they are not saved. They just need teaching and the assurance of the Word/Spirit.
Many Arminians know and trust Christ. They have full assurance of their salvation. They just differ from Calvinists in that they take the warnings about apostasy literally. There salvation is secure, but they recognize the reality that some wander from the faith back to their former life of sin or false religion. This academic conviction based on their understanding of Scripture does not mean they cannot possible by saved as an Arminian.
Is that reasonable or do I have to renounce this idea and adopt the P of TULIP in order to have assurance of eternal life (despite implicitly trusting Christ whether I change my idea on that one issue or not)?
Judge sozo. You were wrong on my posts (that still stand as valid) and the chronology of when I read your post. Is it possible you are wrong on my standing with God? If it is not possible, you have usurped God as the Judge of the hearts of men. You are also out of step with many godly believers here and in the world who believe I am a follower of Christ despite my views on time, eternity, predestination, Calvinism, OSAS, etc.
servent101
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godrulz
Often it is necessary to try to do something - like be chast, be pure of heart, be charitable, be mercyful, be longsuffering, bear one another's burdens, overcome evil with good, support widows and orphans, visit the sick, visit the widow, be friendly, associate with the meek and a number of other instructions - but the energy in the church seems to be towrds as you say -
are forced out because they are not of the same energy feed as the people who trip over the sins they have and of others.
With Christ's Love
Servent101
Often it is necessary to try to do something - like be chast, be pure of heart, be charitable, be mercyful, be longsuffering, bear one another's burdens, overcome evil with good, support widows and orphans, visit the sick, visit the widow, be friendly, associate with the meek and a number of other instructions - but the energy in the church seems to be towrds as you say -
and those who actually try to do
are forced out because they are not of the same energy feed as the people who trip over the sins they have and of others.
With Christ's Love
Servent101
Who said anything about intimacy. David's faith was still in God, when he went through the whole affair [no pun intended] wiht Bathsheba and Uriah. Peter's faith was still in Christ when he denied Him. He was scared, but he did not lose faith. I may even be able to say the same about Judas, but I don't know for sure about what happened to him.
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