A Peculiar Kind of Gospel
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Sozo
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Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen
See! This is exactly the proof that I speak of when I reveal to everyone that you preach another gospel, because you repeatedly claim that it is ourselves who keep ourselves from stumbling, not Jesus.
You are :kookoo:
I quote the verse because I implicitly believe it. The problem is with your understanding of the verse that does not consider the many other verses that affirm our responsibilities in cooperation with God. God is able to save everyone, but not everyone is saved. Hmmmm.
God is able to keep us from falling, but not everyone is kept from falling. Hmmmm.
There is more to the story. Our relationship with God is not passive nor unilateral. Other verses expand on and balance the truth of Jude 24 or you have a proof text unbalanced from the rest of the Bible.
God is able to save all who come in repentant faith. Conditions of salvation are not to be confused with the grounds of salvation nor are they self-righteous works. God is able to keep us from falling, but one of the conditions is that our faith was not a one time act in the distant past. It is an ongoing faith that is alive and nurtured by Christ. Faith is not a work, hence the weakness of your false accusations of self-salvation or sanctification. Faith, love, and trust are not punctiliar aorist tenses (started and ended in the past...I kicked the ball). They are imperfect and present continuous tenses (started in the past, but continue into the future...I kicked the ball and continue to kick the ball).
Eph. 2:8-10 Faith/works relationship (cf. Romans; James)
II Peter 2:10,11 IF= conditional...you make your calling and election sure....IF YOU DO these things, you will never fall.
I Peter 1:14, 15 our responsibility to be obedient and holy in cooperation with the Spirit (vs passive, unilateral, coerced).
Rev. 2;3 IF overcome, persevere, be faithful, etc., THEN you will inherit eternal life and promises (conditional...warned about falling away). This does not mean it is in our own strength (your false accusation/assumption) or on the basis of our ability alone.
God is able to keep us from falling, but not everyone is kept from falling. Hmmmm.
There is more to the story. Our relationship with God is not passive nor unilateral. Other verses expand on and balance the truth of Jude 24 or you have a proof text unbalanced from the rest of the Bible.
God is able to save all who come in repentant faith. Conditions of salvation are not to be confused with the grounds of salvation nor are they self-righteous works. God is able to keep us from falling, but one of the conditions is that our faith was not a one time act in the distant past. It is an ongoing faith that is alive and nurtured by Christ. Faith is not a work, hence the weakness of your false accusations of self-salvation or sanctification. Faith, love, and trust are not punctiliar aorist tenses (started and ended in the past...I kicked the ball). They are imperfect and present continuous tenses (started in the past, but continue into the future...I kicked the ball and continue to kick the ball).
Eph. 2:8-10 Faith/works relationship (cf. Romans; James)
II Peter 2:10,11 IF= conditional...you make your calling and election sure....IF YOU DO these things, you will never fall.
I Peter 1:14, 15 our responsibility to be obedient and holy in cooperation with the Spirit (vs passive, unilateral, coerced).
Rev. 2;3 IF overcome, persevere, be faithful, etc., THEN you will inherit eternal life and promises (conditional...warned about falling away). This does not mean it is in our own strength (your false accusation/assumption) or on the basis of our ability alone.
Sozo
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IDIOT!! God can only keep those from falling who have some place to fall. Those who are not in Christ have nowhere to fall! The verse says that it is HE that keeps us (those who are already His) from falling. It is not a cooperative effort, and this is more evidence of your gospel of self-righteousness.
:shut:
:doh:
Can you tell me where scripture uses the phrase, "spirit of the law?"
Lawless
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Yeah.........It is in 2 Cor 3:5-7
A lot of people interpret this verse as.....Letter of the law and spirit of the law........as godrulz's does! I ask him this question, because I think it to be the key to this thread......Law vs Grace! He answered it as I thought he would.
I haven't answered godrulz yet...but I interpret this verse differant then he......The "spirit" spoken of here is the spirit of Christ, were we recieve our life and rightousness, and not of the law. But "letter" used here is talking about the law.
I was not exegeting this passage. I was using the phrase in general terms to describe a common concept different than the passage. There is more than one meaning to a phrase in different contexts. It is possible to keep the letter of the law with a wrong motive, thus breaking the spirit of the law (whether religious or secular laws). There can be a difference between the heart and the outward appearance. A disciplined child can be told to sit down, but he may be thinking "yah, but I'm standing up on the inside...he sits down but his heart is still defiant...lip service only.
There is no such thing as "spirit of the law!"
Lawless
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Above Perfectly understood......I think we all are on differant pages here though. We are talking about differant, types of spirits. Lighthouse and I were speaking of the spirit of the Lord. I think the 2 Cor3: 5-7 spirit spoken of has nothing to do with the old testament law, but of the new covenant spirit of life in Jesus only.
Amen!
Not in your universe. What do you call the concept of Jesus distinguishing the letter of the law from its true, inclusive meaning (adultery/lust; murder/hate)? We could call the concept whatever you want (aba daba doo?), but the concept still exists.
cf. Trinity. The word is not in the Bible, but it does not mean the concept is not in the Bible.
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom/liberty. The law written on tablets is now written on our hearts. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit and other uses of the word spirit.
God is the Moral Governor of the universe. He is the source of moral laws. The Law did not come from man or Satan. The law's relationship to grace must be clearly defined. We are not saved by the law, nor are we to be lawless (unless you are called Lawless).
Depending on the context, 'pneuma' (Gk.)/'ruach' (Heb.) can refer to the Holy Spirit (in connection with personal pronouns), the human spirit, angels, man's spirit, wind, breath, etc. Look in a concordance or expository dictionary of words (OT/NT).
The Holy Spirit is personal and God. The other uses of spirit are not God (except Spirit is likened to wind), and they may be personal (demons) or impersonal (wind).
There is a difference between 'baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit' and "That man has a bad spirit about him."
There are thousands of uses of the word 'spirit' in the Bible (with many meanings) and in other literature. Dictionaries often have different denotations or connotations of most words. Words often have several meanings.
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