‘My son is not the same’: New testimony paints bleak picture of family separation
- Thread starter annabenedetti
- Start date
- Status
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
In El Paso, Border Patrol Is Detaining Migrants in ‘a Human Dog Pound’
Neal Rosendorf, a government professor at New Mexico State University, took this photograph of migrants he discovered being detained outdoors near the Paso del Norte Bridge in El Paso. The men said they had been held there more than 30 days, without showering or changing clothes.
After New Mexico State University professor Neal Rosendorf read a government report exposing dangerous overcrowding of detained migrants at the Paso del Norte International Bridge in El Paso, he headed to the port of entry to see if he could find anyone protesting conditions there. When he reached the west side of the bridge, he encountered an unmarked open gate, which he walked through in the hopes of asking Border Patrol agents whether they had seen any protesters. Continuing underneath and then past the bridge about 100 yards or so, he was stunned by what he saw—migrants who said they’d been held outdoors for weeks as temperatures rose to nearly 100 degrees.
Rosendorf described it as “a human dog pound”—one hundred to 150 men behind a chain-link fence, huddled beneath makeshift shelters made from mylar blankets and whatever other scraps they could find to shield themselves from the heat of the sun. “I was able to speak with detainees and take photos of them with their permission,” Rosendorf said in an email. “They told me they’ve been incarcerated outside for a month, that they haven’t washed or been able to change the clothes they were detained in the entire time, and that they’re being poorly fed and treated in general.”
U.S. Customs and Border Protection took eight days to respond to Texas Monthly’s questions about Rosendorf’s discovery. In a statement this week, a CBP official acknowledged that the agency was detaining migrants outdoors for extended periods.
Neal Rosendorf, a government professor at New Mexico State University, took this photograph of migrants he discovered being detained outdoors near the Paso del Norte Bridge in El Paso. The men said they had been held there more than 30 days, without showering or changing clothes.
After New Mexico State University professor Neal Rosendorf read a government report exposing dangerous overcrowding of detained migrants at the Paso del Norte International Bridge in El Paso, he headed to the port of entry to see if he could find anyone protesting conditions there. When he reached the west side of the bridge, he encountered an unmarked open gate, which he walked through in the hopes of asking Border Patrol agents whether they had seen any protesters. Continuing underneath and then past the bridge about 100 yards or so, he was stunned by what he saw—migrants who said they’d been held outdoors for weeks as temperatures rose to nearly 100 degrees.
Rosendorf described it as “a human dog pound”—one hundred to 150 men behind a chain-link fence, huddled beneath makeshift shelters made from mylar blankets and whatever other scraps they could find to shield themselves from the heat of the sun. “I was able to speak with detainees and take photos of them with their permission,” Rosendorf said in an email. “They told me they’ve been incarcerated outside for a month, that they haven’t washed or been able to change the clothes they were detained in the entire time, and that they’re being poorly fed and treated in general.”
U.S. Customs and Border Protection took eight days to respond to Texas Monthly’s questions about Rosendorf’s discovery. In a statement this week, a CBP official acknowledged that the agency was detaining migrants outdoors for extended periods.
Lon
Well-known member
I'm not sure. I was hoping for a thread that really talked about the needs and issues at the border. I suppose it'd have been a discussion, but one could likely bring debate to 'how the U.S. is presently doing it' vs. "what we should be doing."
This thread, for instance (not to bash, that's not my intent) is more focused on 'who's fault it is' and bashing Obama's admin and now Trump's admin for it. Is this all we have? The only thing we can do about it? What about writing our senators? What about contacting the Red Cross? All useless? Are churches allowed to come and minister to these great needs? Can we build a little city in the U.S. or on foreign soil that would help all these to make a go of it? What about those overseas that can't get here (Philippines)?
Next: What got us even into this mess? How in the world did all of these people wind up thinking to even come here all at the same time? What worldwide message is being broadcast? Is it the work of these coyotes who profit by selling a dream? What about all our help to these countries that never seems to get to the actual need? Should we do like Japan and start taking over countries and then helping them work out a capitalist economy?
What can or can't we do?
And then: Okay. Neither Obama nor Trump are or did get the job done. What do we do from there? Do we just complain? Is impeaching Trump the ONLY avenue? What else would work? How does a thread like this help (or does it? or is it intended to?).
I AT LEAST am glad that kids genuinely are getting attention, dog pens or not. At the very least, they are not being beaten, martyred, abused, nor neglected of essential needs. I realize there is some indication they may not have sanitary conditions but many didn't come from sanitary conditions. An excuse? A wave? :nono: I'm simply saying I'm thankful at least for something, for anything. We get so political we forget to really look at the need and the actual people. I appreciate some kids are not the same after being separated, but I also appreciate a bit, that some of these who would likely have died(?) are alive and reasonably well where we CAN do something further and have the privilege of talking about it and what to do (nor do I believe their whole journey didn't affect them adversely, having read some of these stories).
I can, have, and will continue to pray and look for places where I can help.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Then make one, Lon.
Let's not talk about the thread. Let's talk about the immigrants.
Because they're desperate, Lon.
Amazing how you just toss off "dog pens or not" like that.
Actually, yes they are.
Okay, I'm all out of patience. What you just wrote there is so wrong, on so many levels. You just throw words, words, more words - and I don't know, maybe you think you're pondering sagely, or philosophizing, or what - but it all comes across as a lot of Pilate washing his hands and saying "what is truth?"
Lon
Well-known member
Conflicting reports, even among these democrat representatives. Most are describing neglect, not abuse. You can make a stance that neglect IS abuse and I'd agree with you but it seems, from several comments, that even many BP agents want to try to help. To me, there is a difference.
1) I don't think it was what I wrote, but what you decided it meant. I'll say it again: EVEN IF they are not treated as humanly, 1) They are not dead or experiencing worse and 2) WE CAN fix that! I'm not sure we can fix all problems, we certainly cannot fix abuse where people are desiring life, but they are here, and they are alive where I,we CAN do something about it. A shiny nickel in the toilet? No, an opportunity because we 'have them.' Try not to jump ahead. Ask first perhaps? I'm not happy about the condition, I am seeing a glass, half full, that can be filled all the way up. AT LEAST it gives me a CHANCE at hope.
Yes, just words if no ears to hear.
Zeke
Well-known member
That's why I recommended building a wall around the district of Columbia for those very reasons.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Because there could always be a "Kindness Kindergarten."
Kind of like when you "build a little city..."
The Hotan Kindness Kindergarten, like many others, is a high security facility
China is deliberately separating Muslim children from their families, faith and language in its far western region of Xinjiang, according to new research.
At the same time as hundreds of thousands of adults are being detained in giant camps, a rapid, large-scale campaign to build boarding schools is under way.
Based on publicly available documents, and backed up by dozens of interviews with family members overseas, the BBC has gathered some of the most comprehensive evidence to date about what is happening to children in the region.
Records show that in one township alone more than 400 children have lost not just one but both parents to some form of internment, either in the camps or in prison.
Formal assessments are carried out to determine whether the children are in need of "centralised care".
Alongside the efforts to transform the identity of Xinjiang's adults, the evidence points to a parallel campaign to systematically remove children from their roots.
In a large hall in Istanbul, dozens of people queue to tell their stories, many of them clutching photographs of children, all now missing back home in Xinjiang.
"I don't know who is looking after them," one mother says, pointing to a picture of her three young daughters, "there is no contact at all."
Another mother, holding a photo of three sons and a daughter, wipes away her tears. "I heard that they've been taken to an orphanage," she says.
In 60 separate interviews, in wave after wave of anxious, grief-ridden testimony, parents and other relatives give details of the disappearance in Xinjiang of more than 100 children.
Something like that could never happen here, right?
This is the thing that's infuriating. Those guys are wringing their hands about how cruel it is to abort a child (and it is), but they have no scruples at all with abusing children after they are born. It confirms my earlier impression that they don't care for children at all, unless there's a political advantage to be had.
Lon
Well-known member
Er, to indoctrinate kids? Yeah, I suppose it is happening in our school system presently :think:Because there could always be a "Kindness Kindergarten."Spoiler
Something like that could never happen here, right?
Comparing it to kids at the border?
:idunno:Anna,
Just why should illegal aliens be treated any better than US citizens?
In my area of the country the state just stepped in and took the two remaining children away from a couple who had just lost one of their daughters to a very virulent form of the flu. She died within 24 hours of contracting it, and there is no treatment for it, yet the state took away the surviving children because it deemed the parents to not be good parents due to the death of their daughter.
It's total insanity as to what US citizens are subjected to without cause, so, why should illegal aliens be treated any differently?
And, just so you know, although I doubt it will dent your ideology, there are people crossing the border every day with children who are not relatives of theirs and who will traffic those kids they bring across in the sex trades. Seemingly you could care less for those kids for they need to be separated from the abusers who brought them here while their identities are established. That means that has to happen to everyone crossing the border illegally and all children must be separated from the adults until identities are established for it is impossible to know who all the sex trafficers are by sight. It's for the good of all that identies are established before kids are turned loose with adults when no one knows if the adults are actually their parents.
Obama did the same thing--separated families and kept them in even dirtier cages--only he could have cared less about the kids being trafficked for his administration turned kids loose with known sex traffickers and violent criminals. What the Trump administration is doing is the right thing. But, you people on the left hate Trump so badly that if he personally financed a cure for cancer you would say his motives were bad and hate him all the more.
Just why should illegal aliens be treated any better than US citizens?
In my area of the country the state just stepped in and took the two remaining children away from a couple who had just lost one of their daughters to a very virulent form of the flu. She died within 24 hours of contracting it, and there is no treatment for it, yet the state took away the surviving children because it deemed the parents to not be good parents due to the death of their daughter.
It's total insanity as to what US citizens are subjected to without cause, so, why should illegal aliens be treated any differently?
And, just so you know, although I doubt it will dent your ideology, there are people crossing the border every day with children who are not relatives of theirs and who will traffic those kids they bring across in the sex trades. Seemingly you could care less for those kids for they need to be separated from the abusers who brought them here while their identities are established. That means that has to happen to everyone crossing the border illegally and all children must be separated from the adults until identities are established for it is impossible to know who all the sex trafficers are by sight. It's for the good of all that identies are established before kids are turned loose with adults when no one knows if the adults are actually their parents.
Obama did the same thing--separated families and kept them in even dirtier cages--only he could have cared less about the kids being trafficked for his administration turned kids loose with known sex traffickers and violent criminals. What the Trump administration is doing is the right thing. But, you people on the left hate Trump so badly that if he personally financed a cure for cancer you would say his motives were bad and hate him all the more.
They hate Trump more than they love their neighbor.
I don't see how one child being abused is justification for abusing thousands of them. How does that reason out?
Checkable source? No?
Scott Lloyd, the Trump appointee once in charge of caring for unaccompanied migrant children, told Congress Tuesday that he never cautioned the Trump administration that separating families at the border could leave children with potentially lifelong damage to their health.
The House Judiciary Committee held a hearing on Tuesday regarding the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy, which split thousands of children from their families. During the hearing, Rep. Pramila Jayapal asked Lloyd, “Did you ever say to the administration, ‘This is a bad idea. Here’s what my child welfare experts have told us. We need to stop this policy’? Did you once say that to anybody above you?”
“To answer your question, I did not say those words,” Lloyd told the California Democrat.
Until last fall, Lloyd served as the head of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is tasked with reuniting separated children. During the same hearing, Jonathan White, a career official who previously worked as the deputy director of children’s programs at the Office of Refugee Resettlement, said he warned Lloyd and other officials against separating families — repeatedly.
“I raised concerns about that both as regards to the effect on children and also the effect on the capacity of the program to serve children, and particularly very young children,” testified White, who sat next to Lloyd. “I raised those issues on a number of occasions primarily prior to Mr. Lloyd’s arrival and also after his arrival.”
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article...t-kids-he-never-told-the-trump-administration
So it's a new policy, which was deliberately meant to harm children as a way of discouraging asylum applications. The Trump administration was repeatedly warned of the harm to innocent children and proceeded with it anyway.
But,people on the right hate asylum seekers so badly that abusing children is, to them, just another tactic to discourage the process.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
For the record, this is your first post in the thread. You aren't moderating it, you've personally invested in it. You've taken a side.
If I replied to you with "you love Trump more than you love your neighbor," you might now feel justified in banning me for disrespecting a mod, which is what you did to Arthur Brain.
That's an efficient way to cull the membership, but it's not a good one, and it's not in the best interests of the forum.
Just making this evident so if you give an infraction in this thread, we can see where you first began, with a lie about the character of other posters on this thread to whose views you're ideologically opposed.
Lon
Well-known member
Similar to not taking care of war veterans. If we can't do it for us, by extension, we'll stink at trying to do it for them. It may be true, but I still wish we'd 'try' to do better to both.
For the most part, agreement. I'd suggest I'm 'right' but not far right. It does often align me with Republican agenda, but I've great reservations with both parties. We haven't had a president in a very long time who represented the majority of us.
So on this one, I prefer 'some' or 'many' "on the right." You did leave that open with 'people on the right' instead of just 'right' but it allowed an opportunity to clarify and distance from those, for whatever reason, would do drastic things to 'discourage.'
And you're correct. It's the extreme right (which happens to be running the executive branch right now) that abuses children this way.
I'm sure many conservatives are highly displeased with this behavior. If there are still any Reagan republicans in the GOP, they must be beside themselves with anger.
:darwinsm:
You mean the pro-homo, pro-abortion socialists who "want to override the second amendment"?
Those right-wingers?
I notice the ignoring of all the kids being trafficked and sold into sexual slavery. That's what the left does. The defend the pedophiles and call them "normal", unless, of course, they happen to be a conservative and then the knives come out.
And, no I'm not going to do your research for you. The information is out there for anyone to find and all that will happen if I provide it is it will be ignored, as usual.
And, no I'm not going to do your research for you. The information is out there for anyone to find and all that will happen if I provide it is it will be ignored, as usual.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
For the record, I received an infraction from Sherman for the above post.
Dear annabenedetti,
You have received an infraction at Theology Online.
Reason: Unnecessarily disruptive
You have received an infraction at Theology Online.
Reason: Unnecessarily disruptive
- Status