ECT Israel's Prophetic Clock stopped in 70AD, not in Mid Acts

Tambora

Tambora

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Aletheiophile said:
The Hebrews viewed the past as before them and the future as behind them,
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True.

They saw the future as something real, but unseen (thus behind them, because you cannot see what's behind you).
The future was a hope, unseen/unrealized as yet.
Unseen because it has not happened yet.
They viewed the past as in front of them because you can see/realize what has already happened.

It doesn't have anything to do with future tense or past tense.
What happened in the past is still past tense, and what happens in the future is still future tense.

The only thing that makes the future seem present is that you can be guaranteed of the future happening as if it already happened because it cannot be altered.
It's just as true now as it will be in the future.
Thus you can claim it is a done deal, even though the deal has not yet been ratified.

Abraham was promised the land he was walking upon.
Upon his death, he had not inherited all the land promised to him.
It's fulfillment is still pending, but guaranteed.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Tambora said:
True.

They saw the future as something real, but unseen (thus behind them, because you cannot see what's behind you).
The future was a hope, unseen/unrealized as yet.
Unseen because it has not happened yet.
They viewed the past as in front of them because you can see/realize what has already happened.

It doesn't have anything to do with future tense or past tense.
What happened in the past is still past tense, and what happens in the future is still future tense.

The only thing that makes the future seem present is that you can be guaranteed of the future happening as if it already happened because it cannot be altered.
It's just as true now as it will be in the future.
Thus you can claim it is a done deal, even though the deal has not yet been ratified.

Abraham was promised the land he was walking upon.
Upon his death, he had not inherited all the land promised to him.
It's fulfillment is still pending, but guaranteed.
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It is obvious Aletheiophile does not know what he is talking about. In this case, all one has to do is hang out with most any one heavily influenced by one or another of the various semitic cultures.

What you have just posted, Tam is then readily apparant.

In fact, I speak, read, and write several languages fluently.

And I find that not only does my sense of my experience of time shift whenever I switch to speaking in one of them for any length of time, but so does even my sense of climate, or wheather, and other aspects of my sense of reality as my representational system begins to build a different model of time, right then and there.

Makes for great rapport with those of other cultures that no amount of an OVER reliance on academia and or its endless books "about" is able to bring about.

But we all experience this.

If you have ever had the sense that the "Bob" or "Linda" you are on the phone with over in some remote part of India or some other country, are not who they would have you believe they are, this is because you are each relating to one another from a different sense of time.

Thus, your bewildered sense of "O Toto; I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."

The KJB is the same way; it is not properly understood until after much time within its resulting sense of time begins to not only make itself obvious, but to become one's own.

I'm reminded of that simple phrase teachers used to introduce "learning time" with - "okay now, boys and girls, TIME TO put on our thinking caps..."

Followed by the equally as deliberate, yet different in its own right - "TIME for recess - Yea!" :)

Time...for...a change...
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Danoh said:
It is obvious Aletheiophile does not know what he is talking about. In this case, all one has to do is hang out with most any one heavily influenced by one or another of the various semitic cultures.

What you have just posted, Tam is then readily apparant.

In fact, I speak, read, and write several languages fluently.

And I find that not only does my sense of my experience of time shift whenever I switch to speaking in one of them for any length of time, but so does even my sense of climate, or wheather, and other aspects of my sense of reality as my representational system begins to build a different model of time, right then and there.

Makes for great rapport with those of other cultures that no amount of an OVER reliance on academia and or its endless books "about" is able to bring about.

But we all experience this.

If you have ever had the sense that the "Bob" or "Linda" you are on the phone with over in some remote part of India or some other country, are not who they would have you believe they are, this is because you are each relating to one another from a different sense of time.

Thus, your bewildered sense of "O Toto; I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."

The KJB is the same way; it is not properly understood until after much time within its resulting sense of time begins to not only make itself obvious, but to become one's own.

I'm reminded of that simple phrase teachers used to introduce "learning time" with - "okay now, boys and girls, TIME TO put on our thinking caps..."

Followed by the equally as deliberate, yet different in its own right - "TIME for recess - Yea!" :)

Time...for...a change...
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Yep.
One has to broaden their view of how things are perceived when going from one culture or language to another.

What has been said by others is a pretty fair assessment ----- that Hebrew is more concrete and Greek is more abstract.
"Concrete" being that things are perceived through the senses (touch, taste, etc.).
"Abstact" being that things are perceived through the mind (a more analytical approach).

To explain in more practical terms .....

You could take the word "pencil".
The Greek would describe a pencil analytically ---- it's a long narrow piece of wood with a thin rod of lead, and a rubberish eraser on one end.
The Hebrew would describe a pencil as a tool that writes.
Kinda along the lines that Greek views what a thing is, and Hebrew views what a thing does.

Hebrew words and names are viewed as more action originated, while Greek is more abstract.

Personally, I view Hebrew as more "living" than Greek.
But that's just me.
 
john w

john w

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tetelestai said:
Then prove me wrong Globalwarming boy.
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No "personal attacks," and "character assassination"(your cry baby words), eh, you flaming actress, greasy Preterist weasel/wimp?

Real tough "guy," are you, Craigie-pie, with your "little Johnny," and "boy" blusters, eh, Wimpy Tellalie?

Quite impressive.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
Tambora said:
Not yet.


When you say "Israel", you do mean it as many individuals and not just one, right?


But one does not cancel out the other.
The physical still has to happen


That still wouldn't cancel the physical promise.


No dear.
There is a promise that the nation of Israel that split into two kingdoms would day be united back as one.
And that they would be gathered from everywhere they were scattered back to their promised land.
And that they would live in peace and safety and never be uprooted again.

That hasn't happened.


Good grief.
Christ's flesh body is not the physical land.
Every descendant of Adam was of the dust of the ground.


A jubilee is a time frame, not physical land.
No matter what time frame you determine it happens, they are still promised physical land in which they will one day live in peace and safety and never be uprooted again.

That hasn't happened yet.
I believe God keeps His promises.
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...But it did happened. When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, many of those captured by Assyria were restore, because MP had absorbed Assyria. There is historical and scriptural evidence, but I won't waste my time presenting it because you won't believe anything else anyway.
 
PneumaPsucheSoma

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Aletheiophile said:
...But it did happened. When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, many of those captured by Assyria were restore, because MP had absorbed Assyria. There is historical and scriptural evidence, but I won't waste my time presenting it because you won't believe anything else anyway.
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Yes, it's a waste of time. They're willfully apostate, thinking they're doing God a service.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
Tambora said:
Yep.
One has to broaden their view of how things are perceived when going from one culture or language to another.

What has been said by others is a pretty fair assessment ----- that Hebrew is more concrete and Greek is more abstract.
"Concrete" being that things are perceived through the senses (touch, taste, etc.).
"Abstact" being that things are perceived through the mind (a more analytical approach).

To explain in more practical terms .....

You could take the word "pencil".
The Greek would describe a pencil analytically ---- it's a long narrow piece of wood with a thin rod of lead, and a rubberish eraser on one end.
The Hebrew would describe a pencil as a tool that writes.
Kinda along the lines that Greek views what a thing is, and Hebrew views what a thing does.

Hebrew words and names are viewed as more action originated, while Greek is more abstract.

Personally, I view Hebrew as more "living" than Greek.
But that's just me.
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....Um hello? I speak 2 modern languages fluently, well versed in another, and have studied and do study Hebrew intensively. I am not just repeating what I have learned in books. I was actually Hebrew Roots and Dispensational for a good period of my life. Head-scarves, long skirts, kosher, and all. So I am very familiar with the breadth of Hebrew/Jewish tradition and thought.

Tambora I agree with your assessment of Hebrew in the last post. But you still misunderstand the point that I am trying to make, and as I said in a previous reply, it doesn't seem that you will get it.

You are all focused on such a minute specific issue, that you cannot zoom out to see what others are saying. It is truly sad, and I grieve for you. All I want is for you to see that Christ is the all in all, and there is nothing unfulfilled. Maybe there is some yet to be culminated, but all is fulfilled.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Aletheiophile said:
...But it did happened. When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, many of those captured by Assyria were restore, because MP had absorbed Assyria. There is historical and scriptural evidence, but I won't waste my time presenting it because you won't believe anything else anyway.
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Honey, the southern and northern kingdoms of Israel have not yet been united again as one kingdom, and they are not yet back in the land together as one.
There has never been a time when both were united in the land with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again.
But there will be because God gave His oath.

Shall we take a look at what the author of Hebrews says?

Hebrews 4:8-9 KJV
(8) For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Aletheiophile said:
Maybe there is some yet to be culminated, but all is fulfilled.
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Fulfilled only in the sense that it is guaranteed to happen.
Guaranteeing that it is definite to happen still leaves the actual event happening.

The actual event of the split nation of Israel becoming one again, in their own land, with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again is guaranteed (perceived as a done deal), but it has not happened yet.
Still waiting for that guaranteed event to happen.
And it will because it is guaranteed.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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Tambora said:
Honey, the southern and northern kingdoms of Israel have not yet been united again as one kingdom, and they are not yet back in the land together as one.
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They are united in Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is the King.

There has never been a time when both were united in the land with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again.
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The kingdom of God is an unshakable kingdom. Those in the kingdom will never have to beat their plowshares into swords to defend it.

Your problem is that you think the kingdom is supposed to be on some land in the Middle East. It's not, and it never will be. The kingdom of God is not of this world.

But there will be because God gave His oath.
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It was fulfilled in Christ Jesus.


Shall we take a look at what the author of Hebrews says?

Hebrews 4:8-9 KJV
(8) For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
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Rest is found only in Christ Jesus, not a piece of land in the Middle East.

(Matt 11:28) "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Joshua was a typology of Christ Jesus. Joshua led people into a physical promised land to have physical rest from bondage. Christ Jesus has led those in Him into a spiritual Promised Land were we have rest from the bondage of sin.
 
steko

steko

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Tambora said:
Fulfilled only in the sense that it is guaranteed to happen.
Guaranteeing that it is definite to happen still leaves the actual event happening.

The actual event of the split nation of Israel becoming one again, in their own land, with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again is guaranteed (perceived as a done deal), but it has not happened yet.
Still waiting for that guaranteed event to happen.
And it will because it is guaranteed.
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Yes, and with Christ sitting on the throne of David at His second coming.

Hasn't happened....yet!
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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Tambora said:
Fulfilled only in the sense that it is guaranteed to happen.
Guaranteeing that it is definite to happen still leaves the actual event happening.

The actual event of the split nation of Israel becoming one again, in their own land, with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again is guaranteed (perceived as a done deal), but it has not happened yet.
Still waiting for that guaranteed event to happen.
And it will because it is guaranteed.
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It is such a joy to simply BELIEVE what God has said
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

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tetelestai said:
(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

As we see above, the prophecy given by Jesus regarding the Jews and Jerusalem was fulfilled in 70AD.

This prophecy, and the fulfillment of the prophecy completely refutes the Dispensationalist's claim that Israel's "prophetic clock" stopped somewhere in mid-Acts.
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:rotfl:
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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steko said:
Yes, and with Christ sitting on the throne of David at His second coming.
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Christ Jesus sits on His throne right now, in the kingdom.

He isn't coming back to planet earth to sit on a man made throne in the Middle East.

Not only does Dispensationalism teach such a heresy, it also teaches there's going to be a third temple, and that Jesus will sit on His man made throne in the third temple while animal sacrifices for sin atonement take place.

Hasn't happened....yet!
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Ain't gonna.

Christ Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets.

You should really turn to Christ Jesus instead of worrying about a piece of land in the Middle East that is currently occupied by Christ rejecting people whom Jesus said their father was Satan.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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Tambora said:
The actual event of the split nation of Israel becoming one again, in their own land, with peace and safety, never to be uprooted again is guaranteed (perceived as a done deal), but it has not happened yet.
Still waiting for that guaranteed event to happen.
And it will because it is guaranteed.
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Again, you are wrong.

In Hosea 1:10-11 God tells the Israelites from the Northern Nation of Israel (that one day they would again be united with Judah. Until that time, the Israelites from the Northern Nation of Israel were "not a people".

God said that when the day came when they would be united with Judah, they would be told "they were children of God".

About 700 years later, after God gave the prophecy to Hosea, Peter said the following:

(1 Peter 2:10) Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Thus, 1 Peter 2:10 confirms the prophecy found in Hosea 1:10-11, and proves that Israel was united with Judah in the first century by Christ Jesus.
 
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