ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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PneumaPsucheSoma

PneumaPsucheSoma

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Let's get right down to it, Sonnet...

What is the source of alleged Synergism?

Is it from man apart from God who created him?

Or is it from the original Monergistic creation, to which (and beyond) we are resurrected?

What is it within man that is uncreated by God for Synergism?
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Before my mother died she said God cheats.

That didn't seem to get her into much trouble while on her death bed.

She would sit up and stare into the spirit world with rapt attention, completely oblivious that I was there.

Quite interesting some of the things one notices watching people on their death bed.:think:
 
intojoy

intojoy

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1Mind1Spirit said:
He lied.

He studies error.

AKA hearsay.
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I've looked at Calvin's doctrines. What I meant was I'm not going to go thru it all any more than I'd go thru the Book of Mormon .

Because I see their errors. I am too busy studying the truth. Ain't got no time fo dat


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1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
intojoy said:
I've looked at Calvin's doctrines. What I meant was I'm not going to go thru it all any more than I'd go thru the Book of Mormon .

Because I see their errors. I am too busy studying the truth. Ain't got no time fo dat


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LOL, It wasn't any longer than your two posts on the same subject.

So are you saying you're not done lookin' at that false week theory yet?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
No. I've clearly illustrated that the original creation is Monergistic, and from that original creation would have to come what you refer to as Synergism.

There is only Monergism, even if it included what you perceive as Synergism. You're just playing games. I think you know it. Maybe you don't. Either way, you're beating the air.

Tell me... What is it that man has for Synergism that wasn't originally created by God within man in some manner?
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Why you think this assist your argument is curious. Yes - all is from God monergistically.

You don't quote scripture much do you?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Faith, the noun, is not about others and their doctrines, etc. You find faith difficult because the thing thought and spoken about as the means of the thing heard has not had the thing believed come out of it as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

You're using Christians as the excuse for the alleged difficulty of a noun you insist is a verb. You have no idea how ridiculous this is.
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pisteuó, Verb: believe, have faith in, trust in
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Let's get right down to it, Sonnet...

What is the source of alleged Synergism?

Is it from man apart from God who created him?

Or is it from the original Monergistic creation, to which (and beyond) we are resurrected?

What is it within man that is uncreated by God for Synergism?
Click to expand...

John 1:3
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Let's get right down to it, Sonnet...

What is the source of alleged Synergism?

Is it from man apart from God who created him?

Or is it from the original Monergistic creation, to which (and beyond) we are resurrected?

What is it within man that is uncreated by God for Synergism?
Click to expand...

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4721952&viewfull=1#post4721952

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4721970&viewfull=1#post4721970

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4721972&viewfull=1#post4721972

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4722686&viewfull=1#post4722686
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Eagles Wings said:
Hope you read this through for an understanding of the Doctrines of Grace.

TULIP: Faith of Our Fathers
By Gritters, Barrett L.

The Calvinists came up with a beautiful acronymn (TULIP) to explain the doctrines of grace.


Is the faith of our fathers living in your life? In your church? We sing the song: 'Faith of our fathers living still ...' and no doubt the faith is living. But the question is, 'Where is that faith living and confessed?' And, 'What is the faith of our fathers?'

It was expressed over 350 years ago by our church fathers at the Synod of Dordt (in the Netherlands). We use the familiar acrostic: TULIP to help us remember what our fathers said the Bible teaches:



Dead in Sin?
T - Total Depravity

That means simply MAN is DEAD. The Bible says that you and I are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1-6) unless we are born again. DEAD!!! More than that, the man or woman who is dead in sin hates God, and his 'carnal mind' is 'enmity against God' (Rom. 8:7). His will is stubbornly steeled against God. This Biblical idea changes a lot of modern talk about salvation.
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How many times does the Holy Spirit come?

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Even thought the carnal mind is enmity against God, nevertheless Paul quotes Deut 30:11ff in Romans 10.

Consider what that means:

1.Can a man do good works then, if he is not a Christian who is born again? No. 'Whatsoever is not of faith is sin' (Rom. 14:23).
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The act of faith is not an act of man but an act under the influence of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 7:51


2.Can a man want to be born again and follow instructions on 'how to do it?' No, for that would be like saying that a man in a grave can desire to come out of the grave, or follow instructions on how to be made alive. It would be like trying to lure him out of the grave. 'It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing' (John 6:63).
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You seem to believe that the Spirit does not come upon all men.


3.Can any man 'accept Christ' as his personal Savior, so that he becomes saved after that? Of course not. Accepting Christ is a good work done only by a Christian. Only AFTER God makes a person alive, can he and will he accept Christ. 'No man can come unto me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him' (John 6:44).
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The bad news that is supposed to be good news.

v.45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.


4.Can you 'offer salvation' to anyone? That is surely impossible. One might as well offer food to a dead man than salvation to a dead sinner (Eph. 2:1-2).
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Christ offered it to those he described as not his sheep.

ONLY GOD CAN MAKE US ALIVE. AND GOD DOES THAT SOVEREIGNLY - WITHOUT OUR AID, WITHOUT OUR ASKING. From beginning to end, 'Salvation is of the Lord' (Jonah 2:9). This is the faith that we preach, because it is Biblical, because it is the FAITH of our fathers, which we love, still living in our hearts, and because it gives God all the glory!

Not My Choice
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The reality is is that your doctrines require you to focus on the depravity of man (and I accept we are depraved) - in order to uphold the right of God to pick and exclude. This supposed election and reprobation is in diametric opposition to what scripture actually teaches. Romans 10:1-13.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Eagles Wings said:
L - Limited Atonement

The great gospel message that so many today are urgently carrying to distant lands is that Christ made atonement with His death. But there are two critical points at which this message is so severely distorted that it no longer carries the gospel message.

THE FIRST DISTORTION concerns what Christ's death did. The Biblical truth of the Atonement is that His death paid for sins. Yet so many today teach that Christ's death was only an example for us to follow, and if one merely follows His example he will be saved. Or it is taught that Christ's death did not actually pay for any specific sins, but made it possible for all sins to be paid for.

But the Bible says that Christ's death on the cross actually paid for sins. Acts 20:28 says that God bought the church with His own blood. See also Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 7:26-27.
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Bereft of any scriptures that explicitly support LA you are forced to wrest the doctrine from scriptures that say no such thing.

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Nothing here about anyone not being bought by His blood.

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

What does 'many' mean here:

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

?

That 'many' Jesus spoke of - did it include Judas:

Luke 22:21-22

?

THE SECOND DISTORTION of this biblical truth is that Christ died for all men.
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And you have ZERO scriptures that explicitly support LA.

1 John 2:2, John 1:29, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 1 Tim 4:10, John 3:14-16, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11.


Some teach that Christ made it possible for all men to be saved. But the questions that must be asked are: 'If Christ died for all men, why are not all men saved?' 'Can not God do what He desires to do?' 'Is there something defective in Christ's death?' 'Must man desire to be saved first?' But a man who is totally depraved can not will to be saved. He hates God and wants nothing to do with Christ's death. So it must not be said that Christ died for all men.
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So Paul the disingenuous then? Romans 10:1ff.

The Bible says that Christ laid down His life for His sheep,
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How about admitting that Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees in a PARABLE and tells them that they are bad shepherds. He contrast their bad shepherding (they just threw out the now healed blind man from the synagogue) with what he does.

No one is excluded from joining the flock - v.9.

and only them (John 10:11).
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The parable demonstrates the Pharisee's bad shepherding and Jesus' good shepherding. The sacrifice in v.11 underlines this good shepherding. It says nothing about any supposed LA doctrine. You are twisting the meaning.

The ATONEMENT is LIMITED to the elect of God. Every sin of every one of Christ's sheep is paid for. Those sins and those alone have been paid for. That is the only gospel because that is the Bible.
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Actually, Paul and the apostles preached 1 Cor 15:3-8.

v.11
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
 
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