The Christ Rejectors
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
How do you know what it is? If people are trapped in a state of inescapable suffering and through design then that's torture so don't bother with the semantics.
Eh? You think people would prefer to suffer than acknowledge God? Newflash JR, we're all just fallible flesh and blood and atheists aren't choosing to reject a creator, they're just not convinced that one happens to exist. Frankly, the one portrayed by fundamentalists is hardly "love" and by the way, you are not a spokesperson for God.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So, God isn't cruel but He'll force people to live in an eternity of suffering if they don't believe on this plain of existence?
lain: Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?
There are only two options. Living WITH God for eternity, and living WITHOUT God for eternity.
By not choosing to live WITH God, the only other option is to live WITHOUT God.
By rejecting Him or by not accepting His existence, a person chooses the latter.
I strongly recommend (even though I know you won't) going through the kgov.com/index and listening to the shows (that are available) where Bob talks about hell and the lake of fire.
Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?
All one has to do is to look around them to see evidence for his existence.
Has it occurred to you, Arthur, that some people reject that God exists willingly, not because there's no evidence for his existence, but because they hate righteousness, and that they would be happy living apart from God even if it meant that they would suffer?
I believe I've asked you this before, but I don't remember you answering.
What causes suffering, Arthur?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
They are not "choosing" to do any such thing. According to you, God isn't cruel yet He'll dispatch people to an eternity of suffering if they don't happen to believe in a speck of existence on Earth. You're quite right on the latter, I'm not remotely interested in what Bob Enyart has to say about anything.
Tell that to someone who's born into an environment where the "nearest" water supply could be fatal or a parent who has a child born with terminal cancer. If you didn't live in such a black and white little world you might "see" a bit better yourself.
You might as well ask as to whether a person would sooner choose to stay in a building house or would prefer to get the hell out of it. Most people aren't hedonistic psychopaths so has it occurred to you that most people who have doubts genuinely just have doubts?
What causes suffering? All sorts of things although I'm fairly sure you're going to reduce all of it to sin?
Yes, they are.
Take your "agnostics," for example.
They CHOOSE to reject the existence of God because the evidence that He exists does not convince them.
He isn't.
Because the only other alternative is to be with him for the rest of eternity. If someone rejects God (and therefore His offer of salvation), or if they accept that He exists, but reject His offer of salvation, then God cannot let them into Heaven, because they have not been forgiven of their sins, and since God cannot allow sin into His presence, He must cast them away from Him.
All the more reason to tell them about Him and convince as many as possible that He DOES exist, and will condemn them on Judgment Day for their sins.
lain:All of that is evidence that there IS a God and that disease and death is a result of rejecting Him.
Thank you for making my case for me.
Then why doesn't everyone accept God?
I'll tell you why. It's because God is righteous, and people would rather live in their sin than be confronted with His righteousness.
Who said anything about "hedonistic psychopaths?
I'm talking about your average joe shmoe out on the street, going about their daily lives.
Then all they have to do is look.
As Scripture says:
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! - Matthew 7:7-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:7-11&version=NKJV
That's part of it.
But what's the root cause? Do you know?
Here's the problem, by the way. You're not willing to consider things that go against your beliefs. If you were, you would ask for more information on this topic. Instead, you reject it out of hand.
It's because of this that people will go to Hell, because they aren't really that interested in God, no matter how much you claim that "they just have doubts." This, too, is rejection of God.
Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Some, hate the rain, yet, the rains come. Some, hate the heat of Summer, yet, the Summer comes. Some, reject the 'Gospel of the grace of God,' and, they will spend eternity in 'The Lake of Fire.' These are examples of things we have no control over. We MUST accept the 'The Will of God' in spite of our own WILL. God created everything and we MUST play by His RULES. Like it or not.
Sloppy debating. It's a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" type of question.
The books (plural) were opened, not a Book of Works.
The purpose of the second resurrection is to provide an opportunity for eternal life.
The Father draws to Christ those who are ready for for eternal life.
Not everyone is ready at this time.
The second resurrection is the primary opportunity for most people.
Few are chosen for the first resurrection.
A Book of Works is not relevant. Salvation is not by works.
"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment..." (Hebrews 9:27)
Those who have died once must be resurrected before they can be judged regarding works.
Salvation is not by works.
If that were true then why is the word "Whosoever" used over 200 times in the New Testament?
"That WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not perish" John 3:16.
"WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
"WHOSOEVER shall confess me before men, him will I confess before my Father" Matthew 10:32.
You have a very difficult way to go that will result in your condemnation.
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Um, no, they're just people who aren't convinced of the existence of a God, that's all no matter how much spin you might wanna put on it.
If you believe that God has people consigned to eternal suffering with no escape then you can hardly call that altruistic.
Only according to your limited parameters of what God can/cant, must/mustn't do. Typical unthinking black and white mentality. Once again, you are not a spokesperson for God.
Yay, "turn or burn" chick tract garbage. Zero to do with genuine love.
What, a kid born into terminal illness or born into an environment where the only water is liable to make them ill is supposed to understand any of that? Or a parent who is torn apart by seeing their child waste away from disease is supposed to "connect the dots"?! If you think you have a case with that then it's one that's full of rocks.
:freak:
Oh, that isn't arrogant or presumptive at all is it? Do you have the capacity for empathy and compassion at all or are you just a clanging cymbal?
The average "joe" is just trying to navigate his/her way through life, frail flesh and blood just like you and me. You're the one on a high horse declaring why they don't believe the same as you.
Yeah, then everyone would be as insightful as you and belief would be easy. One day you might understand why people don't find it as simple as that and get off that arrogant and ignorant high horse.
No, do tell.
lain:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Oh please. I don't take chick tracts seriously as they're whacked out bat crazy garbage and you should apply the same standard to yourself in order to be consistent. I'm not interested in what he has to say because I've seen plenty of what he has to say already and it's the typical fundamentalist shtick that I've encountered time and again.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
glorydaz
Well-known member
Artie needs a foxhole in order to change his tune. :chuckle:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What "tune"?
If you've finished chuckling at yourself, care to make some kinda point?
:AMR:
glorydaz
Well-known member
So, God isn't cruel but He'll force people to live in an eternity of suffering if they don't believe on this plain of existence?
Has it occurred to you that folk who don't believe in this life might be happy enough to acknowledge their mistake if face to face with the truth of a loving creator?
By then it will be too late. Proof of your Creator is all around you, and written in your very being. Why do you ignore that?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Zoom....right over your head. Which is why I chuckle at YOU.