Are you stuck at the gate ?

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Actually my response was to this post wherein "the last fifteen years" are mentioned:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-at-the-gate&p=5000733&viewfull=1#post5000733

The point of my question is simple. If I have spent fifteen years doing something only to be more often that not met by misrepresentations and character assassinations, I would be compelled to examine what it is about what I am doing that warranted such responses. Surely there must be some means available to me by examining the results of my efforts to change my approach or tactics to lessen the negative results. I can understand some dissent here and there, but Faither asserts "for the most part" his efforts have been unsuccessful. Hence, I am curious as to what methods are at work that engendered a majority of negative responses.

If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got. If a person expects something different, then they will have to do something different.

AMR

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Thats the difference between the wide and narrow path . Just that simple .

If you can't keep your replies focused on the Salvation journey i've presented please no not reply at all .

I asked you to tell me what it's like to recieve the "mind of Christ" , and what it's like living with it everyday to show Christ is yours to claim . You didn't reply for 3 days and never gave me an answer . then you come back with personal attacks instead of addressing the topic of this thread .

Can you answer any question i present to you ? "ASK MR RELIGION"

What indeed is the straight gate and narrow way that only a few will ever find.

What indeed is the straight gate and narrow way that only a few will ever find.

Faither said:

Thats the difference between the wide and narrow path.

Click to expand...

What indeed is the straight gate and narrow way that only a few will ever find.

Being given by God to know/get the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven and actually getting/knowing these mysteries is the straight gate and narrow way:

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Jesus left here (and went to spirit heaven, clad only in His Spirit body) to do one thing for those who follow Him correctly.

Jesus went ahead to prepare a mansion in God's house (in heaven) for those who esteem and following Him correctly (i.e. in the regeneration):

John 14 King James Version (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Going to God's kingdom of heaven, into the mansion in God's house which Jesus went ahead to prepare for His authentic followers is anchored on being given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven and actually knowing the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

The sad fact is that these mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven cannot be found in the O.T. Nor can these mysteries be found every where in the N.T.. Also one must be given by God to get these mysteries. That is, one must be 'converted' first in order to be given by God to get these mysteries.

These mysteries were hid from Abraham generations and those others until 2000 years ago, when they (these mysteries) were brought by Jesus and delivered to only the disciples/saints, in private sessions among only them (i.e. the disciples/saints).

Therefore the mysteries of God kingdom of heaven will be found only in those very few private deliveries which Jesus made to only his twelve disciples, among only them:

Colossians 1 King James Version (KJV)
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Matthew: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Being given by God to know/get these mysteries and actually getting/knowing these mysteries is the straight gate and narrow way:

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The straight gate and narrow way is the straight gate and narrow way to the mansion in God's house (in heaven) which Jesus has prepared. This is anchored on being given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. This is the entire purpose of one's current life on earth:

Hebrews: 9 King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Fact is going to the mansion in God's house, in heaven, which Jesus went ahead to prepare for his followers is anchored on esteeming and sowething to the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God Lord Jesus and not at all on esteeming and sowething to the physical, earthly, flesh and blood, son of man Jesus who is not the lord in heaven:

Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

The above are the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. These define the straight gate and narrow way.

To be given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven is anchored on having a heart that is not waxed gross, having eyes to see and ears to hear. This is to be converted. Only then can one have communion with Jesus and ever have a hope of going to heaven, in the the mansion in God's house which Jesus went ahead to prepared, for those who follow Him in His regenerated Spirit.

The above describes the straight gate and narrow way.

. . . beware of corruption of truth and other nonsense, 'ah la Faithing'.

There can be no mercy for those who corrupt the Holy KJV N.T. and so seek to misguide their fellow mankind (with their own 'half-baked' and/or carnal ideas.

Nothing can be truth if it is not totally and literally backed-up with (supported by) revelations from the Holy KJV N.T.

Parroting slogans of platitude to Jesus counts for nothing. One must do the necessary work and so achieve the (the born again) actualization to know and commune with, and be led by, the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God Jesus who is the Lord in heaven.

Matthew: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

One can be led by the Spirit of God only by communing with and being led by the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Lord Jesus as discerned, intuitively, within one's own heart/spirit, in real time, all the time.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession), because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God (the Holy Spirit).

Having the Mind of Christ

Having the Mind of Christ

Faither said:

Thats the difference between the wide and narrow path . Just that simple .

If you can't keep your replies focused on the Salvation journey i've presented please no not reply at all .

I asked you to tell me what it's like to recieve the "mind of Christ" , and what it's like living with it everyday to show Christ is yours to claim . You didn't reply for 3 days and never gave me an answer . then you come back with personal attacks instead of addressing the topic of this thread .

Can you answer any question i present to you ? "ASK MR RELIGION"

Click to expand...

I have no idea why you consider a plain question a personal attack. You opened the door, stating your results have been primarily negative for fifteen years. That begs the question I have asked. Try not to read more into the question. Can you answer it now?

Having the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16) versus your receiving the mind of Christ...

The contrast between believer (the spiritual man) and unbeliever (the natural man) comes to full relief in verses 1 Cor. 14:16. It is the work of the Holy Spirit which determines whether someone is an unbeliever or not. This has nothing whatsoever to do with human wisdom, intelligence, or ability.

This, of course, presents great problems for all forms of Arminianism, semi-pelagianism, and views of decisional regeneration in which it is argued that sinners have it within themselves the ability to take that first step toward God. Paul says something quite different.

“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. ‘For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?’ But we have the mind of Christ.”

In verse 1 Cor. 2:14, Paul makes his point with great clarity. That person who does not have the Holy Spirit (the psychikos man) does not “accept” the things (the wisdom or word) that comes from God, through the Holy Spirit. The Greek word to “accept” (dechomai) means something like “welcome.” The cross remains “foolishness” to an unbeliever because they are not able to determine the cross’s saving efficacy apart from the work of the Spirit.

This idea has profound ramifications for the doctrines of salvation and ethics, and should inform all attempts to interact with non-Christians in any evangelistic or apologetics context. Our confidence should not be in our personal testimony or in our power to persuade. Our confidence should be in the wisdom of God and the power of the Holy Spirit revealed in the gospel.

Paul does not mean we know all things, or even that we know all spiritual things infallibly. Since we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we view things from the perspective of Christ crucified. In other words, we have a Christian perspective on things grounded in God’s wisdom from the age to come, which the apostle now speaks of in terms of having the mind of Christ.

As Christians, we see things in light of biblical categories, not in the light of pagan wisdom. We think like Christians, not like unbelievers, because the Holy Spirit has given to us the mind of Christ. It all comes down to the simple fact that God’s ways are not our ways and that his thoughts are not our thoughts (Isa. 55:8). Non-Christians look for God in all the wrong places, and they reject that very message (the cross) wherein everything they need to know to find true wisdom is revealed.

Non-Christians do not understand the gospel because the meaning of the cross is spiritually discerned. To them, God saving “sinners” while rejecting “good” people constitutes an injustice. The fact is that God saves whom he will save through the death of his Son. The self-righteous cannot see this. But the Christian (the pneumatikos) makes judgments upon all things, because through the work of the Holy Spirit, he sees things through the lens of Holy Scripture.

A Christian sees things in light of God’s wisdom, and not in the dim light of the wisdom of this age. A Christian is no longer subject to the foolish judgments of the sages and philosophers, who call God’s wisdom foolishness, all the while God mocks their wisdom as foolishness. As Christians, we have the mind of Christ (illumination), because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who knows the mind of God, and who has revealed to us God’s wisdom in the cross.

If we are in Christ, we are indwelt by the Spirit of God. Therefore, we have the mind of Christ.

This is why we are to look for the wisdom of God and a demonstration of the Spirit’s power precisely in those places where we are weakest. This is why Christianity will always remain foolishness to a Greek and a stumbling block to Jews. God reveals his wisdom and power in the cross, that message through which the Spirit of God demonstrates his power. But this means giving up much of what we hold dear and what we prefer. It also means admitting that God’s ways are right and ours are wrong, and this is never easy.

AMR

To have the mind of 'Christ' is simply as follows:

To have the mind of 'Christ' is simply as follows:

To have the mind of 'Christ' is simply to know what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do.

This is achieved only by converted people when each of then search their own heart/spirit to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession has in mind for each of them to know, pray for, say and do:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession), because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God (the Holy Spirit).

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Actually my response was to this post wherein "the last fifteen years" are mentioned:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-at-the-gate&p=5000733&viewfull=1#post5000733

The point of my question is simple. If I have spent fifteen years doing something only to be more often that not met by misrepresentations and character assassinations, I would be compelled to examine what it is about what I am doing that warranted such responses. Surely there must be some means available to me by examining the results of my efforts to change my approach or tactics to lessen the negative results. I can understand some dissent here and there, but Faither asserts "for the most part" his efforts have been unsuccessful. Hence, I am curious as to what methods are at work that engendered a majority of negative responses.

If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got. If a person expects something different, then they will have to do something different.

AMR

Click to expand...

But your message smells bad, being polite and polished slick grammer and spelling of words that doesn't out wiegh the degradation of Divine will for all men born of woman Matt 11:11.You fail the Galatians 4:24 Acts 17:24 Luke 17:20-21 2 Cor11:11 test and unlike God you respect mens dogma and this worlds compact more than the kingdom not of this world, that Id shows whose slave you are.

Ask Mr. Religion said:

I have no idea why you consider a plain question a personal attack. You opened the door, stating your results have been primarily negative for fifteen years. That begs the question I have asked. Try not to read more into the question. Can you answer it now?

Having the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16) versus your receiving the mind of Christ...

The contrast between believer (the spiritual man) and unbeliever (the natural man) comes to full relief in verses 1 Cor. 14:16. It is the work of the Holy Spirit which determines whether someone is an unbeliever or not. This has nothing whatsoever to do with human wisdom, intelligence, or ability.

This, of course, presents great problems for all forms of Arminianism, semi-pelagianism, and views of decisional regeneration in which it is argued that sinners have it within themselves the ability to take that first step toward God. Paul says something quite different.

“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. ‘For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?’ But we have the mind of Christ.”

In verse 1 Cor. 2:14, Paul makes his point with great clarity. That person who does not have the Holy Spirit (the psychikos man) does not “accept” the things (the wisdom or word) that comes from God, through the Holy Spirit. The Greek word to “accept” (dechomai) means something like “welcome.” The cross remains “foolishness” to an unbeliever because they are not able to determine the cross’s saving efficacy apart from the work of the Spirit.

This idea has profound ramifications for the doctrines of salvation and ethics, and should inform all attempts to interact with non-Christians in any evangelistic or apologetics context. Our confidence should not be in our personal testimony or in our power to persuade. Our confidence should be in the wisdom of God and the power of the Holy Spirit revealed in the gospel.

Paul does not mean we know all things, or even that we know all spiritual things infallibly. Since we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we view things from the perspective of Christ crucified. In other words, we have a Christian perspective on things grounded in God’s wisdom from the age to come, which the apostle now speaks of in terms of having the mind of Christ.

As Christians, we see things in light of biblical categories, not in the light of pagan wisdom. We think like Christians, not like unbelievers, because the Holy Spirit has given to us the mind of Christ. It all comes down to the simple fact that God’s ways are not our ways and that his thoughts are not our thoughts (Isa. 55:8). Non-Christians look for God in all the wrong places, and they reject that very message (the cross) wherein everything they need to know to find true wisdom is revealed.

Non-Christians do not understand the gospel because the meaning of the cross is spiritually discerned. To them, God saving “sinners” while rejecting “good” people constitutes an injustice. The fact is that God saves whom he will save through the death of his Son. The self-righteous cannot see this. But the Christian (the pneumatikos) makes judgments upon all things, because through the work of the Holy Spirit, he sees things through the lens of Holy Scripture.

A Christian sees things in light of God’s wisdom, and not in the dim light of the wisdom of this age. A Christian is no longer subject to the foolish judgments of the sages and philosophers, who call God’s wisdom foolishness, all the while God mocks their wisdom as foolishness. As Christians, we have the mind of Christ (illumination), because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who knows the mind of God, and who has revealed to us God’s wisdom in the cross.

If we are in Christ, we are indwelt by the Spirit of God. Therefore, we have the mind of Christ.

This is why we are to look for the wisdom of God and a demonstration of the Spirit’s power precisely in those places where we are weakest. This is why Christianity will always remain foolishness to a Greek and a stumbling block to Jews. God reveals his wisdom and power in the cross, that message through which the Spirit of God demonstrates his power. But this means giving up much of what we hold dear and what we prefer. It also means admitting that God’s ways are right and ours are wrong, and this is never easy.

AMR

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Long post with no answer to the question i asked you. I asked you for your personal understanding of what happens when we have the "Mind of Christ".

You can copy the understanding of what happens when the Holy Spirit is sealed into us , but you won't find the answer as to what happens when we recieve and live with the "Mind of Christ." The only way to know is having the accual experience . It's not a difficult answer if you have it , probably never be able to guess if you don't.

If you don't want to talk in an open forum about this , PM me the answer and i''ll continue a discussion with you . If you can't or won't your in no doubt still stuck at the gate . That is why i'm presenting this to you and others.

Faither said:

Long post with no answer to the question i asked you. I asked you for your personal understanding of what happens when we have the "Mind of Christ".

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I guess the liberal use of "we" (which includes me.....personally) in my direct response was overlooked or just ignored.

I think I am beginning to understand your fifteen years of negative results now. :AMR:

Carry on, then.

AMR

Faither said:

Long post with no answer to the question i asked you. I asked you for your personal understanding of what happens when we have the "Mind of Christ".

Click to expand...

Not very engaging. I get interested in posts when there is something substantial rather than a mistreatment of another's post.
Reasons why someone may not engage another's posts:
1) Frustration (talking a past one another).
2) Lazy or academically unable
3) 15 years of inability. Having had this same conversation with you AND seeing you give it almost verbatim to the next guy and then the next guy? I think AMR is correct, after 15 years, the problem is yours.

Faither said:

You can copy the understanding of what happens when the Holy Spirit is sealed into us , but you won't find the answer as to what happens when we recieve and live with the "Mind of Christ." The only way to know is having the accual experience . It's not a difficult answer if you have it , probably never be able to guess if you don't.

Click to expand...

Oddly, a few people on TOL think that God ONLY speaks to them. Romans 11:4 1 Kings 19:14,18

Faither said:

If you don't want to talk in an open forum about this , PM me the answer and i''ll continue a discussion with you .

Click to expand...

Jeremiah 31:34 Hebrews 8:11 We are to encourage one another with scripture, psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs but if it isn't entirely clear in scripture, then a private interpretation is just that. Most people that think God 'needs' them on TOL, aren't really all that needed, lest you or I get an overblown head and undue pride.

Faither said:

If you can't or won't your in no doubt still stuck at the gate . That is why i'm presenting this to you and others.

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It is that ol' Lord it over cult walnut shuffle game of guess where the spiritual pea is. God is well able to make His own disciples and call them. There is really no need for you (or I). He has rocks, He says for the job He can easily use. Anything else than clear scripture is likely of a cult. See #2 & #7

Ask Mr. Religion said:

I guess the liberal use of "we" (which includes me.....personally) in my direct response was overlooked or just ignored.

I think I am beginning to understand your fifteen years of negative results now. :AMR:

Carry on, then.

AMR

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As was the same intent of this thread , my advice to you is to read all my posts for the last month , really think about them . Then comeback with legit questions about " my posts."

I think we could still have a converstaion if you would reply on the message and not the messenger . The messenger is flawed , i think we will agree on that , so i submitt any of my understandings for your testing . As long as it's not about being in Christ , your not there yet.

Faither said:

Thats the difference between the wide and narrow path . Just that simple .

If you can't keep your replies focused on the Salvation journey i've presented please no not reply at all .

I asked you to tell me what it's like to recieve the "mind of Christ" , and what it's like living with it everyday to show Christ is yours to claim . You didn't reply for 3 days and never gave me an answer . then you come back with personal attacks instead of addressing the topic of this thread .

Can you answer any question i present to you ? "ASK MR RELIGION"

Click to expand...

Who are you that he should submit to your inquiry? Romans 14:4

I realize it is your thread, but is one engaging you at your beck and call? Romans 10:13 I've clearly seen during my years of being Christ's, a lot of people want to interject into my life what they think I need to walk closer with Jesus or how to know I am really saved. I have come to embrace Job 13:15. God can and as the ONLY Sovereign, will, do with me as He pleases. "If" He uses me in any capacity in another's life, I am blessed.

Regardless of how I come across to you, the fruit of these posts is in His hands. God can and often does do all of this, without me. I am graced if He sees fit to use me.

Faither said:

...your not there yet.

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:nono: "You're not there yet...." -Lon

Faither said:

The Salvation journey or process .

Phase one : we make the initial surrendering of our lives to Christ . (pisteuo) And it must be genuine .

Phase two : God deems the surrender genuine and allows the surrendered life to be moved forward .

Phase three : The parable of the sower .

1)The called out ones who have made a genuine surrender to Him are the soil.
2) Jesus Christ Himself is the seed .
3) A hearing is being held here.
4) A grafting process begins here .
5) A response starts to happen .
6) The paradox begins to form here . ( Gods framework of understanding ).
7) This is a proving ground , a testing ground .
8) 3 out of the 4 surrendered lives will fail here .
9) Here , Christ is beginning to be formed in our hearts by Faith and faithing .
10) Decisions are made here that show God we really stand on the fact God has taken the surrendered life and will offered to Him .
11) No prayer or worship acceptable here yet .
12) No saving faith here yet .

Click to expand...

A very important note to make at this stage of the journey .

Most everyone thinks the Holy Spirit is given at the very start of this process , "the moment of belief."

I won't get into how unbiblical that is , i just want to show that this part of the process "the parable of the sower " must not only happen but be done at the right time and place in the process .

If the Holy Spirit was given at the very start as most people think , then the 3 out of 4 people that fail would be failing with the Holy Spirit in them . That can't happen , once the Holy Spirit is sealed into a faither , it's very difficult to loose it . Once we are sealed with the Holy Spirit , it is harder to get rid of it than it is to keep it .

So in my understanding , because the Holy Spirit is not yet sealed into a person during the testing ground ( phase 3 )or parable of the sower , they can fail , and start again with a new genuine surrendering of there lives to Christ , in effect trying to get through the gate again. If they fail with the Holy Spirit in them , they would not be able to be sealed a second time . We can only be saved once .

Why are all you guys making-up your own things about all things Christian?

Why are all you guys making-up your own things about all things Christian?

Why are all you guys making-up your own things about all things Christian? Is it because of boredom?

Why have you guys gone about your own foolish righteousness and pretending that it is Christianity?

Why don't you guys simply accept the literal statements in the Holy KJV N.T.? They are perfect and clear. No interpretation or understanding are necessary.

For example: 'The mind of Christ' is not about all the foolishness you guys are posting:

To have the mind of 'Christ' is simply to know what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do.

This is achieved only by converted people when each of then search their own heart/spirit to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession has in mind for each of them to know, pray for, say and do:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession) itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession), because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God (the Holy Spirit).

In the above 'the Spirit' must be the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus. This is so because, Jesus is currently clad only in His Spirit body. And no one can commune directly with God who is the Holy Spirit.

Everyone must go through Jesus to come onto or to know God, Who is the Holy Spirit). Only the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus makes intercession for saints/Christians with God who is a Spirit (the Holy Spirit).

John: 14 King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

These are all literal and clear truths in the Holy KJV N.T.

A billion strong traditional Christian cannot be the chosen few who have found the straight gate and narrow way, because, like you guys, they have gone about making-up their own foolish anti-scriptures anti-Christ righteousness.

Zeke said:

But your message smells bad, being polite and polished slick grammer and spelling of words that doesn't out wiegh the degradation of Divine will for all men born of woman Matt 11:11.You fail the Galatians 4:24 Acts 17:24 Luke 17:20-21 2 Cor11:11 test and unlike God you respect mens dogma and this worlds compact more than the kingdom not of this world, that Id shows whose slave you are.

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:nono: You do a lot of drive-by's. Isn't your avatar a native American with doctrine of men? :think:

Zeke, somewhere along the line, you realized you could not stop something and decided that Christianity therefore was not for you because you could not follow rules. You do not have to quit smoking dope or follow rules. The Lord Jesus Christ is a real person who really died on a cross to save you. These drive-by posts of yours don't do anything. They do nothing for us, and do nothing for you. James 1:20

Faither said:

A very important note to make at this stage of the journey .

Most everyone thinks the Holy Spirit is given at the very start of this process , "the moment of belief."

Click to expand...

Yep. 1 Corinthians 2:14 Mostly Charismatics and Pentecostal think otherwise. AMR told you that you cannot respond to God without Him enabling you. John 15:5,16 Colossians 1:17 1 Corinthians 4:7

I won't get into how unbiblical that is

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You NEED to! I can give you scripture all day long concerning it AS biblical.
There can be no moving forward unless and until you can prove this AND get people to believe it is true.
Acts 10:44,45 Read it. It is against your assertion.

Faither said:

i just want to show that this part of the process "the parable of the sower " must not only happen but be done at the right time and place in the process .

Click to expand...

Romans 10:14,15

If the Holy Spirit was given at the very start as most people think , then the 3 out of 4 people that fail would be failing with the Holy Spirit in them .

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This is just bad teaching from a Pentecostal church. 1 John 2:19 If you are seeing 3 out of 4 people failing, it is because the church you are in is doing conversion by their own power instead of by the Holy Spirit.

Faither said:

That can't happen , once the Holy Spirit is sealed into a faither , it's very difficult to loose it . Once we are sealed with the Holy Spirit , it is harder to get rid of it than it is to keep it .

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Not just 'difficult' but impossible. Philippians 1:6 1 John 2:19
If I had one objection that I wanted you to hear, regarding the whole thread as well as my and everyone's interaction with you, this is it:
You cannot born-again yourself. You cannot 'new-create' yourself. ONLY God can make a new creation. Read and memorize Ephesians 2:8-10 2 Corinthians 5:17 John 6:44

Faither said:

So in my understanding , because the Holy Spirit is not yet sealed into a person during the testing ground ( phase 3 )or parable of the sower , they can fail , and start again with a new genuine surrendering of there lives to Christ , in effect trying to get through the gate again. If they fail with the Holy Spirit in them , they would not be able to be sealed a second time . We can only be saved once .

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The parable of the sower is about the 'message.' In this sense, the Pentecostal churches have made receiving the message the way of salvation. It isn't. The Lord Jesus Christ was talking about those who became his disciples at this time: Some rejected Him outright, others followed because of the bread and fishes, and turned away, and yet His disciples (not just the 12) stuck with Him and were responsible for furthering the kingdom. ALL of this prior to the work of the Lord Jesus toward and after the cross. Afterwards, they would be filled with His Spirit.

Gurucam said:

A billion strong traditional Christian cannot be the chosen few who have found the straight gate and narrow way, because, like you guys, they have gone about making-up their own foolish anti-scriptures anti-Christ righteousness.

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:nono: Even at that number, we are still only 15% of the world. That INDEED is narrow! Try and think rather than emote. All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Too many of you become accusers of brethren and work against the message of the Cross. Of course there are cults who know nothing of Christ's redemptive work and eschew the Bible as God's word to us. There are some among us who are not part of us. Paul does say that, but read his (His) epistles: Though Paul says many will come, he only mentions a handful you can count on your fingers and toes. Today, we know all the cults that are outside of Biblical bounds but you shouldn't be trying to tell individual people inside orthodox churches, which ones are in and which ones are out. Too many on TOL don't understand orthodox vs. individual pronouncements. Individuals need to be more careful not to throw out accusations left and right. Too many think they are the Lord's anointed who 'get' to judge for the Lord Jesus Christ. Luke 9:54 I cringe at the sons of thunder and their audacity. The Lord Jesus Christ certainly loved them, but they were overtly audacious and judgmental. Luke 9:55 "The Lord rebuked them (His job, not theirs)."

Lon said:

:nono: Even at that number, we are still only 15% of the world. That INDEED is narrow!

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Nope, it is still a humongous and wide gate.

meshak said:

Nope, it is still a humongous and wide gate.

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" FEW " find it !

meshak said:

Nope, it is still a humongous and wide gate.

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Faither said:

" FEW " find it !

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Why would YOU want to narrow the gate more than grace? John 3:17 Luke 19:10 Acts 2:47; 6:7; 9:42; 11:24,26; 13:48; 17:12; 18:8,10; 19:18,26; 21:22 Matthew 20:28; 22:9; 26:8; 28:18; 8:11

Who's bible are you reading, Meshak? Faither? Hebrews 11:12

Do you realize how many stars are in the sky? How many grains of sand are on a beach? Genesis 15:5

Read even half of these verses. You both are wrong as far as I understand the Bible, and I think it is pretty clear. At the very least, read Hebrews 11:12 and Genesis 15:5 Stars and sand are a bit broader than a deer trail. Not a freeway, but big enough to account for 15% as the Lord counts narrow. He is clear, it is at least bigger than either of you imagine. He came but to seek and save the lost. He's a LOT better at it than you two give Him credit for. Sad. Neither of you think He's as capable as I do.

Lon said:

:nono: Even at that number, we are still only 15% of the world. That INDEED is narrow! Try and think rather than emote. All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Too many of you become accusers of brethren and work against the message of the Cross. Of course there are cults who know nothing of Christ's redemptive work and eschew the Bible as God's word to us. There are some among us who are not part of us. Paul does say that, but read his (His) epistles: Though Paul says many will come, he only mentions a handful you can count on your fingers and toes. Today, we know all the cults that are outside of Biblical bounds but you shouldn't be trying to tell individual people inside orthodox churches, which ones are in and which ones are out. Too many on TOL don't understand orthodox vs. individual pronouncements. Individuals need to be more careful not to throw out accusations left and right. Too many think they are the Lord's anointed who 'get' to judge for the Lord Jesus Christ. Luke 9:54 I cringe at the sons of thunder and their audacity. The Lord Jesus Christ certainly loved them, but they were overtly audacious and judgmental. Luke 9:55 "The Lord rebuked them (His job, not theirs)."

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Matthew: 22 King James Version (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 7:14King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The above applies only to those who are called to be Christians.

All the world is not called to be Christians.

Simply 'many' are called but few chosen.

A billion strong traditional Christians are simply called. From among them, only a few make it.

The reason why a billion strong traditional Christians are not chosen is because they err because they are misled/fooled-up by many false prophets and they do not know scriptures.

Matthew: 24 King James Version (KJV)
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mark: 12 King James Version (KJV)
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

False prophets/false brethren who deceive many aspiring Christians can exist and operate only within what passes for Christianity.

False prophets/false brethren are responsible for returning the billion strong traditional Christians to bondage under the ten commandments. Clearly they operate form within the very core of what passes for Christianity.

Christians have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the ten commandments when they serve or are led by the Spirit of Jesus. False prophets and false brethren deceive Christians and fool the billion who are called to be Christians into being in bondage under the ten commandments.

Those who esteem and use the ten commandments, in any way, are obliged to up hold all the ten commandments perfectly and completely and Christ has benefited them nothing and they are not under grace of God.

In spite of the above a billion strong traditional Christians esteem and use the ten commandment in some way or the other.

Gurucam said:

Matthew: 22 King James Version (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 7:14King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The above applies only to those who are called to be Christians.

All the world is not called to be Christians.

Simply 'many' are called but few chosen.

A billion strong traditional Christians are simply called. From among them, only a few make it.

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Hebrews 11:12 Genesis 15:5
You CANNOT count the number of either in your lifetime. If you start counting now, 50 years from now, without a break, you'd count a billion. There are a something like 100thousand billion times a billion stars and grains of sand. I think you guys latch onto the idea that many will be turned away. "Many" is not most. "Many will say to me on that day Lord Lord." Agree. Let's not quench the Holy Spirit or work against His work.

I know why Cults do this: They WANT to believe only they are right. In thread, Faither and Meshak are opposite on what they believe and will believe each other aren't going to make it. Put you in that mix? That means 1/3 of cults, at just 2 million will ever be saved. That isn't narrow, it is impossible and restricts the majority of the planet from Heaven. How would that ever be called 'good news?' So narrow that even the majority of those who put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ are STILL not going to Heaven? Not even half of them? That isn't 'many' that is "half" or "most." Words mean something. The scriptures do not use 'half' or 'most' but rather stick with 'many.' Regarding the whole world 'few,' but that is what we see today. 15% is few.