God's Truth
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Peradventure means perhaps.
Why God Cannot Decree Someones Salvation
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Peradventure means perhaps.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
I thought you were asking what the English word gospel meant. You were of course asking what evangel or evangelism means. Message from El or Elohim. Notice the construction of evangel ev-angel and we all know angel means messenger, but ang'el is actually message of El.
Who is pate?
Pate is a blood bought child of God that has been redeemed by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ.
The word "Gospel" means good news.
It is good news that Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for our self.
By his righteous sinless life he fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for us, Matthew 5:18.
By his death on the cross he atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God as justified, He is our justifier, Romans 3:26.
No Roberto you've been told the word gospel means good news and you have fallen for it without any confirmation. Now like a parrot you're repeating it like a mantra.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Mr. Pate,
You consistent adherence to scripture on this topic is greatly appreciated.
For the benefit of those who have learned of the truth of free will as taught by scripture:
God foreknows those who will believe, that is, who will choose to believe.
However, God's power, as Mr. Pate states, does not force people to believe against their will.
If God forced people to "believe", then the word believe no longer has any reasonable meaning.
We believe what we choose to believe.
People can choose to believe error or truth, if they know the difference. If not they still choose what they will believe, (or attempt to believe)
Salvation is a gift. Unless someone chooses to receive that gift, and takes the appropriate actions to appropriate it, Romans 10:9, they will not have that gift.
Even those who do not know God's word, or Jesus Christ, etc. are taken into consideration by God's justice, Romans 2:6-11 God promises that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled. period. If they truly hunger and thirst, God shall, absolutely, make sure they are given the opportunity to learn.
We can be laborers together with God by carrying out our ministry of reconciliation right where we live.
If there is no one say in, country X, for instance, that hungers and thirsts for righteousness, God knows all hearts, then no one there will be filled, there is no reason for the gospel to be preached there because God already knows that no one there will believe it. God's omniscience is the answer. Most of not all of us have heard accounts of God's ability to get the gospel to people, when they hunger and thirst for righteousness.
What does God decree?
That anyone, whosoever, believes shall receive.
Mark 9:23 do you choose to believe God's word, or not?
You consistent adherence to scripture on this topic is greatly appreciated.
For the benefit of those who have learned of the truth of free will as taught by scripture:
God foreknows those who will believe, that is, who will choose to believe.
However, God's power, as Mr. Pate states, does not force people to believe against their will.
If God forced people to "believe", then the word believe no longer has any reasonable meaning.
We believe what we choose to believe.
People can choose to believe error or truth, if they know the difference. If not they still choose what they will believe, (or attempt to believe)
Salvation is a gift. Unless someone chooses to receive that gift, and takes the appropriate actions to appropriate it, Romans 10:9, they will not have that gift.
Even those who do not know God's word, or Jesus Christ, etc. are taken into consideration by God's justice, Romans 2:6-11 God promises that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled. period. If they truly hunger and thirst, God shall, absolutely, make sure they are given the opportunity to learn.
We can be laborers together with God by carrying out our ministry of reconciliation right where we live.
If there is no one say in, country X, for instance, that hungers and thirsts for righteousness, God knows all hearts, then no one there will be filled, there is no reason for the gospel to be preached there because God already knows that no one there will believe it. God's omniscience is the answer. Most of not all of us have heard accounts of God's ability to get the gospel to people, when they hunger and thirst for righteousness.
What does God decree?
That anyone, whosoever, believes shall receive.
Mark 9:23 do you choose to believe God's word, or not?
oatmeal
Well-known member
I have to keep repeating it because there are people on this Forum like yourself that are anti-Gospel and anti-Christ. Who want to make the doing and the dying of Jesus of no effect.
Aaron the Tall
Member
So, you think Rom 5:10 is saying the elect are reconciled to God while they are in a state of being God's enemies?
I think that is the opposite of what Rom 5:10 is saying. It is saying they were reconciled while they were in a state of being God's enemies - but at that point they stopped being God's enemies. Why do I think this? Because the second half of the verse provides the contrast "having been reconciled." And also vs. 11 "we have now received reconciliation." There is a clear contrast between being God's enemies and being reconciled. Of course someone is an enemy of God at the time they are reconciled, because that is the only natural state one can be reconciled from - but they are no longer enemies from that time forward.
That sounds like Jn 3:18 can't mean what it so clearly states because it disagrees with your doctrine.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, believers, those who have done Romans 10:9, have received the gift of salvation/righteousness/holy spirit/eternal life/faith. Those are different names, or facets of the same gift. Perhaps the most general term for the gift is eternal life, for the gift of eternal life saves us from the alternative that people who believe to reject God receive, which is eternal death, also known as the second death
Aaron the Tall
Member
If its meaning is irrelevant - why are you so hung up on it?
It doesn't matter what it means, just as long as you don't think it means "good news"?
Which verses do you think become twisted if you read them thinking gospel means "good news"?
It's way too soon to be concerned about a second death, after all we must experience the first death first.
There is a problem with foreknowledge. If God knows who will believe and who will not, then is God just in giving life to those who do not believe so that he can condemn them to hell?
I say that God limits himself and does not know who will believe and who will not. Even the angels in heaven rejoice over every lost sinner that repents and comes to Christ, Luke 15:10.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well, in the sense of what Matthew 6:34 teaches us that is true. However, God did not have scripture written for our benefit so that we should ignore what the future has in store.
Believers will not experience the second death, they have already been judged righteous having received the gift of eternal life.
I John 5:13 tells us it is available for believers to know that they have received eternal life, in fact, God wants us to know that so that we can life our lives now fearlessly and fully for God.
The term evangelism is why we have evangelists. We don't have gospelists so even you should be able to work that one out Roberto.
Try this:
Prophets deliver a prophecy
Messengers deliver a message
Evangelists deliver the evangelism
The "gospel" is delivered by?
There is a lot more I could tell you, but...
The term gospel does not convey what the word besorah and euangelion or paraangelial conveyed. That is why there is such confusion when people read Paul saying "my gospel".
I think this needs a thread of its own...
Last edited:
oatmeal
Well-known member
Thanks for your question, a wise question.
I will start in simple terms for the benefit of those who may need a jump start.
Foreknowledge.
A compound word, fore + knowledge.
fore is before or beforehand
knowledge is a knowing, it is not wisdom, nor understanding nor action nor decision making.
God certainly does exercise wisdom....
But knowledge is knowledge, wisdom is wisdom, action is action.
If you know it will rain tomorrow, could you take some wise action with that knowledge? Yes, you could
But "foreknowledge" of the weather does not mean you decreed the weather. You simply know ahead of time.
Have you ever received foreknowledge from God about future events? Yes, of course you have. If you have read some scripture it is likely you have learned of future events, such as I Thess 4:13-18, therefore you have received foreknowledge from God. What you do with it is up to you. Does foreknowledge of the return of Christ for his saints mean that you can change that from happening? Nope.
It would be wise to take that knowledge of future events into our thinking and adjust our lifestyle accordingly.
To answer your question directly, did God tell "Bob" and "Sally" to have sex outside of marriage and get pregnant? No, God did not have anything to do with that decision, nor of Sally getting pregnant.
People have children whether they are believers or not. God is not interested in condemning anyone. It is God's will (His passionate desire)that all men be saved, (I Tim 2:4, and come to the knowledge of the truth), but that is his desire but not what all people will choose. It is the free will choice of every individual as to whether to believe God or not. God justly gives everyone that opportunity to choose to believe or not to believe. People receive the results of their choices, if they do not believe, they condemn themselves, if they choose to believe, they reap the benefits of believing God.
Some people jump out of windows to their death, others wisely do not. God is not going to change the laws of the universe to accommodate one individual's wisdom or lack thereof. Gravity is a physical law that we can enjoy or hurt ourselves with. Gravity hold true whether you are a believer or not. Likewise with spiritual and moral law. What we choose to believe or not believe has either positive benefits or negative consequences.
God foreknowing who will choose to believe and who will not does mean that God is meddling with people's ability to choose, He simply already knows what they will choose.