ECT Can God be tempted?

Cross Reference

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What is the purpose of temptation especially if God dwlares He cannot be tempted? / / Though He did say this:


"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
Malachi 3:10 (KJV)

And this:

". . . your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years."
Hebrews 3:9 (KJV)

But then we must deal with this:

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:13 (KJV)
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
What is the purpose of temptation especially if God dwlares He cannot be tempted? / / Though He did say this:


"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
Malachi 3:10 (KJV)
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Proof and temptation are not the same thing. I see no contradiction here at all unless you are trying to draw in Jesus' temptation by Satan (for various reasons) when He says to Satan "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God..." (presumably quoting Deuteronomy 6:16). Even then - as I will state in response to Hebrews 3:9 - there is no contradiction. That tempting of God (Exodus 17:6-7 and Deut 6:16) is essentially coaxing God with one's unbelief and disobedience. Proving God is putting Him to the test in regards to His faithfulness to His own Word.

Cross Reference said:
And this:

". . . your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years."
Hebrews 3:9 (KJV)
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Tempted - brings to my mind a frustrated parent saying something like "Don't tempt me..."
Prove - yes...Israel had abundant evidence of God's faithfulness to His Word...and what is being said is that in spite of that, they hardened their hearts :

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Hebrews 3:8-9

They are being told they were left with no excuse. Not only did God prove faithful to His Word, but He was patient through the unbelief of Israel and their tempting of God.

Cross Reference said:
But then we must deal with this:

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:13 (KJV)
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God, indeed, cannot be tempted with evil. This is the only verse of the ones you have quoted that deals with the internal inclinations of God. It's the only one that is saying anything about whether or not God has any weakness, so to speak, such that He would even (for a moment) consider siding with evil.

What is possibly a little more thorny is what James says concerning God's tempting of man in light of the Lord's Prayer :

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13

If God doesn't tempt man, why would the thought even enter our minds that He might lead us into temptation? What say you?
 
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nikolai_42 said:
What is possibly a little more thorny is what James says concerning God's tempting of man in light of the Lord's Prayer :

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13

If God doesn't tempt man, why would the thought even enter our minds that He might lead us into temptation? What say you?
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I agree with all your preceding comments.

The immediate above is as this in to my understanding:

God doesn't tempt man but allows man to be tempted to prove him, not unlke Adam and Jesus. Therfore when we ask not to be lead into temption it is for proving us we are given to understand and we are not yet able to be proven when asking not be led into it; there remains work to be done within us that when the test comes and it will come, we will be sustained by our love TO God. Love TO God is the thing from us that overcomes. Having said all that, temptation is alway the playing field for our spiritual growth unto son-ship. God alone knows when to allow the pressure to begin.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
I agree with all your preceding comments.

The immediate above is as this in to my understanding:

God doesn't tempt man but allows man to be tempted to prove him, not unlke Adam and Jesus. Therfore when we ask not to be lead into temption it is for proving us we are given to understand and we are not yet able to be proven when asking not be led into it; there remains work to be done within us that when the test comes and it will come, we will be sustained by our love TO God. Love TO God is the thing from us that overcomes. Having said all that, temptation is alway the playing field for our spiritual growth unto son-ship. God alone knows when to allow the pressure to begin.
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So why would we even have to ask our Heavenly Father such a thing?
 
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nikolai_42 said:
So why would we even have to ask our Heavenly Father such a thing?
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Because a disciple, one who ia truly born again, knows what I wrote to be true for his life, given the scriptures that revealed it to his mind. Jesus spent 30yrs in preparation for the testing he knew was coming and yes, for Him to be proven by it all. Is He not called the "second Adam"?
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
Because a disciple, one who ia truly born again, knows what I wrote to be true for his life, given the scriptures that revealed it to his mind. Jesus spent 30yrs in preparation for the testing he knew was coming and yes, for Him to be proven by it all. Is He not called the "second Adam"?
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Maybe I'm missing your point, but the Psalmist says this :

Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
Psalm 103:13-14

Knowing who we are and what we need (and even when to let the pressures begin - as you said), it seems an odd thing for the Savior Himself to teach us to pray this full thought : Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil... with one being the alternative to the other. I understand what you are saying that we need to be proved, but Jesus, essentially (with that in mind) is having us pray to have that proving replaced with deliverance from it. If God really knows who we are, what we can handle (and even provides a way out of temptation), then why instruct us to pray to avoid all that?
 
WonderfulLordJesus

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There are nuances of temptation. There is being tempted, the devil trying to tempt, this an external force. This is one thing. There's another sense of temptation as to whether a person is actually tempted, enticed or not. You can say you are actually tempted, if you'd contemplate taking the devil up on his offer. But you are not actually tempted, if you'd not even contemplate giving in to the temptation, are not even enticed.

The Lord would, in no way, be tempted, in the sense of being enticed, but this doesn't mean the devil didn't tempt Him. People of the Adamic flesh, with potential for evil, can be tempted by evil, may contemplate doing the evil, though never doing it as, say, a sin resistant Christian, but are of that sin nature to contemplate evil choices. With the Lord Jesus, of God, this is not so: His absolute holiness is not tempted this way by evil. The devil was wasting his time, trying to tempt the Lord, while, again, this is often not so with ordinary man. At the same time, God is, naturally, not going to tempt a person to do evil as the devil does, be party to encouraging sin, in His case a difference between allowing sin to operate and the Lord ever being party to sin, sin that is an exclusive of man and evil spirits, never holy, holy, holy God.

So, there is temptation, and then there is temptation, as many things, important contexts to consider, like the multiple contexts of temptation in these verses:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted [enticed, contemplating evil], I am tempted of God [God doesn't entice to sin like the devil]: for God cannot be tempted with evil [holy God does not encourage or contemplate sinning, does not sin, has no sin, isn't enticed by sin], neither tempteth he any man [again, God doesn't do the devil's work, dangling sin]. 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed [we have sin, are sole owners of our sin, not holy God, in any sense].
 
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nikolai_42 said:
Maybe I'm missing your point, but the Psalmist says this :

Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
Psalm 103:13-14

Knowing who we are and what we need (and even when to let the pressures begin - as you said), it seems an odd thing for the Savior Himself to teach us to pray this full thought : Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil... with one being the alternative to the other. I understand what you are saying that we need to be proved, but Jesus, essentially (with that in mind) is having us pray to have that proving replaced with deliverance from it. If God really knows who we are, what we can handle (and even provides a way out of temptation), then why instruct us to pray to avoid all that?
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I told you why. Moving on.

Pity? To what end? Jesus wasn't pitied. He feared the consquences of His failure to come through it all. Why? Did God not lead Him into temptation?
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
I told you why. Moving on.

Pity? To what end? Jesus wasn't pitied. He feared the consquences of His failure to come through it all. Why? Did God not lead Him into temptation?
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Which still begs the question...why would the same One who taught us to pray thus :

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13

...do so in light of what He declared here (if the overcoming required being in some sense led into temptation) :

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:21

Isn't that like asking that God remove the circumstances that would allow you to overcome?
 
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nikolai_42 said:
Which still begs the question...why would the same One who taught us to pray thus :

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13

...do so in light of what He declared here (if the overcoming required being in some sense led into temptation) :

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:21

Isn't that like asking that God remove the circumstances that would allow you to overcome?
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Nik, you are going around in circles. Give me break from this type of questioning that only engenders more of the same 'go nowhere' speak.
 
Nameless.In.Grace

Nameless.In.Grace

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In short, our weakness shows our need for His Perfection. He alone is sufficient, and sometimes we are forced to recognize that His Grace is sufficient for ourselves and others.


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Nameless.In.Grace said:
Cross Reference,

Now I'm super curious. When you say this, even though it's fairly clear, could you please expound the who protecting who and the need portion of your question / statement?


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You explain it. You brought it up. If you can understand why David was called a man after God's own heart, you will find your answer.
 
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