What is Paul talking about, as to Unbelieving Israel's status in Romans 9-11?
And that itself...in light of Romans 1:18-3:30?
Therein is HOW the intended sense of his use of any word or passage is arrived at.
ECT Do those who believe MAD have no problem disregarding what Jesus actually taught ?
- Thread starter dodge
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What is Paul talking about, as to Unbelieving Israel's status in Romans 9-11?
And that itself...in light of Romans 1:18-3:30?
Therein is HOW the intended sense of his use of any word or passage is arrived at.
Right Divider
Body part
I don't know where you get your beliefs, but I get mine from scripture!
See how that works?
Nobody gets eternal life apart from God's grace and YET God gave Israel some work to do. Could Israel just say to God, "I'm saved by grace through faith apart from these things that you told us to do"?
No MAD's do NOT believe that Jesus was made of wood, but that is EXACTLY my point .... there are normal figures of speech and other various idiomatic expressions in the Bible. There is ALSO CONTEXT, like when Jesus is speaking to HIS PEOPLE, Israel and calling gentiles DOGS.
dodge
New member
Reading your posts you sure had me fooled.
IF the Jews have grace plus works for salvation then the Apostle John would be a liar. You know for by grace have you been saved trough faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast.
I understand in your belief system "any" only means "some".
Since Jesus' teachings have been relegated to be in subservience to Paul's teachings by, Madist, I am sure you have no clue what the following verse actually says.
Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I also never knew that" whosoever" meant only Jews, according to Madist.
I guess gentiles must not have been on the world at the time Jesus said the above ,according to Madist.
Right Divider
Body part
That's because you're a wild-eyed religious zealot that doesn't really care what others think or know.
John did not write that, PAUL did.
Once again, it means what it means in its context.
Jesus called Paul. I believe what Jesus taught no matter when He taught it or through whom He taught it.
I believe all of the Bible, including Genesis 12.
dodge
New member
IT NEVER WENT OVER MY HEAD , but it sure calls the Apostle John a liar.
IF the Jews have grace plus works for salvation then the Apostle John would be a liar. You know for by grace have you been saved trough faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast.
I understand in your belief system "any" only means "some".
Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I also never knew that" whosoever" meant only Jews, according to Madist.
I guess gentiles must not have been on the world at the time Jesus said the above ,according to Madist.
Hi right divider , and how can you have a RIVALRY when Rom 11:8 says , God gave Israel a spirit of STUPOR , eyes to see NOT and ears to hear NOT UNTIL THIS DAY !!
No RIVALRY that I see with those who can never SEE or HEAR !!
Are these PENTECOSTALS or those who hold to and Acts 2 position who are BLIND and wax in there EARS ??
DAN P
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andyc
New member
Nah...... he wasn't a minister to Americans.
Not really. I actually don't like any of the 3 words, but I don't know what would be better.
Hi and when you are in the RACE , I do race to finish the race as Paul said , and we have to keep the rules so as not to be DIS-QUALIFIED !!
dan p
Right Divider
Body part
Paul is trying to get them saved, so I think that the word "rivalry" would be a very poor way to describe the jealousy that he is provoking.
The same word is translated as "provoke to emulation" in the same passage:
Rom 11:11-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (11:13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (11:14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
Hi and you have it right and it shows that the Greek translators are not always right just as BAPTIZO has 12 different English words that can be used in many verses !!
dan p
Spoken like a true Acts 28er, bro.
Thus, the thank you of the Almost 28er: STP :chuckle:
P.s. Personally, I disagree with you - just about everything Paul wrote of in his later epistles is found in his earlier epistles and vice versa.
You and the Almost 28ers just use a very similar approach.
By the way, do you also conclude that Romans 2:17 is referring to the Romans as proselytes, as the Almost 28ers erroneously do?
Thanks, in advance.
And yet you did it.
Also, it should be high on your priority list if you want to converse and communicate on this site, as it makes it easier to follow the conversation and who said what...
dodge
New member
Evry place I have read "baptizo" has one meaning which is to immerse.
What is the Greek word for baptism and what does it mean?
However, our word baptize translates the Greek word baptizo, not bapto. While bapto may mean “to dip or immerse,” baptizo does not refer to a mode, but to a process and an effect. While a baptism may include dipping or immersing, baptizo does not, in itself, mean “to immerse.”