ECT Grace: How it is administered?

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Would I be remiss in saying that "Redemption" enables us to receive the Holy Spirit? The how of it can be another discussion.

that was possible before redemption
and
who knows what that means
but
good people who lived before redemption
were saved with the Resurection
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Why, when the Holy Spirit had not be given. It was not possible before Jesus resurrected from the grave. If you think I am wrong then please explain who were the captives Jesus set free from the grave?

okay
what happened to those who lived and died before Jesus did what he did?
are any of them saved?
and
if so, when were they saved
and
how were they saved without the Holy Spirit?
 

Cross Reference

New member
okay
what happened to those who lived and died before Jesus did what he did?

The descended into paradise, the abode of the righteous dead, Abraham's bosom.

are any of them save?

Did not Jesus, when He died, descend into that grave and set them free?

and
if so, when were they saved

They were saved, made eligible to enter directly into heaven, when Jesus shed His "life saving" blood to make it possible.

and
how were they saved without the Holy Spirit?

Why did they need the Holy Spirit for salvation?? They were righteous, justified by faith, and peace was made with God by Jesus Christ in their behalf. Did not Jesus this: ". . I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 11:25 (KJV)

What else does the scripture say they needed??
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The word Should in Ephesians 1:4 means future tense, at judgement. It does not mean that we can be holy and blameless here on earth. We are sinners but God sees us as blameless because of the Jesus and the cross.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The descended into paradise, the abode of the righteous dead, Abraham's bosom.

just a theory.

Jesus descended into the grave, the place of dead people.



Did not Jesus, when He died, descend into that grave and set them free?

Not alive.

Only through His death.





They were saved, made eligible to enter directly into heaven, when Jesus shed His "life saving" blood to make it possible.

Men will only enter Heaven after their resurrection, as Christ did.



LAWhy did they need the Holy Spirit for salvation?? They were righteous, justified by faith, and peace was made with God by Jesus Christ in their behalf. Did not Jesus this: ". . I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 11:25 (KJV)

What else does the scripture say they needed??

dunno.

LA
 

Cross Reference

New member
Grace is a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ. It is undeserved.

Redemption is undeserved. We had nothing to do with it, no part in it. It is a fact irrespective of what anyone believes. It is a 'stretch' to believe it is by grace but rather a fulfillment of God's promise to the saints of old who died because of Adam's transgression.

Try believing that for the living only salvation is the gift. It is by the grace of God, given to those who ask for it.

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Romans 4:4).

You should now be able to see why your verse is a mis-quote.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It is obvious, you are confusing "Redemption" with "Salvation".

"Redemption" doesn't need to be "walked out" in one's personal life whereas, "Salvation" does.

It would probably help you to read what I actually wrote instead of what you just did there.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
just a theory.

Jesus descended into the grave, the place of dead people.





Not alive.

Only through His death.







Men will only enter Heaven after their resurrection, as Christ did.





dunno.

LA



Obviously people only become believers after they are alive, not before. The merits that save them were accomplished in Christ and the events of the Gospel.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
Not true. God's grace (the shed blood/Cross) is available to all men and they access it by faith.

"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Corinthians 13:2).

Grace is "administered" by the workings of the Holy Ghost in the heart of the believer. This ordinarily is done through the sacraments of the Catholic Church.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Corinthians 13:2).

Grace is "administered" by the workings of the Holy Ghost in the heart of the believer. This ordinarily is done through the sacraments of the Catholic Church.



In hearing the Gospel, a person is convicted of sin, righteousness and judgement by the Spirit, Jn 17. It doesn't have anything to do with sacraments, but with the propositions declared by the person speaking. Christ is our righteousness for justification before God.
 
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