No Means No!

glorydaz

Well-known member
Mothers are now teaching their sons to have a text message showing that the women they have relations with consent.

Which is sad, because the response was 'sometimes yes means no'.
There's something overlooked in this overblown concern for potential rape victims, and it's that it's not just women who are victimized.

Indeed, there are women who prey on innocent young men.
 

Traditio

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Mothers are now teaching their sons to have a text message showing that the women they have relations with consent.

And the response was 'sometimes yes means no'.

Yeah, this isn't particularly useful in establishing consent. It could well be the case that the woman was willing to engage in sexual contact at the moment of sending the text message, but changed her mind shortly afterwards, prior to actual sexual contact.
 

Crucible

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Yeah, this isn't particularly useful in establishing consent. It could well be the case that the woman was willing to engage in sexual contact at the moment of sending the text message, but changed her mind shortly afterwards, prior to actual sexual contact.

With the powers that be, a person has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be found guilty for anything.

If we changed that for rape, we'd essentially have an inquisitorial system of justice on the matter and that just leaves, like the witches in Salem, victims of anyone who wants to make a claim.

Men are manipulated and/or victimized enough by women as far as I'm concerned, and receive lesser punishment than men for crimes across the board from jaywalking to murder.

Feminism has started to bark up the wrong tree- they've obtained equal rights and now they are moving on to special privilege and exceptions.



Yes means yes.

*I edited my last post to be more clear and add a bit to it, but nothing relevant to your response
 

Traditio

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With the powers that be, a person has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be found guilty for anything.

Yes, when we are talking about criminal law. I wasn't talking about criminal law.

Men are manipulated and/or victimized enough by women as far as I'm concerned, and receive lesser punishment than men for crimes across the board from jaywalking to murder.

Feminism has started to bark up the wrong tree- they've obtained equal rights and now they are moving on to special privilege and exceptions.

Again, you're talking about the law, societal practice, etc. That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm simply pointing out that the simple fact that a woman says "yes" at T1 doesn't mean that she continues to say "yes" at T2.

She could send a text message saying she wants to have sexual contact, change her mind, and then say "no." In those circumstances, the man in question should respect her wishes.

Note, these comments are not intended to have absolutely any bearing on criminal law, society, or anything else.

Yes means yes.

See my previous comments about whether "no" always means "no." Again, linguistic expressions must be taken in their proper contexts. The simple fact that a woman says "yes" doesn't in and of itself indicate that she is willing to engage in sexual contact, nor does the fact that she consents at T1 (point in time 1) necessitate that she consents at T2 (point in time 2).
 

intojoy

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We are taught (in rape prevention lectures) that No Means No!

speaking from my experience, I would agree with the statement that:

No sometimes Means No!

No sometimes also means Yes

No sometimes means Not Yet

No sometimes means Not Until The Kids Are Asleep

No sometimes means Pour Me Another Glass Of Wine And Put On Some Luther Vandross

No sometimes means Not Here - My Mother's In The Next Bedroom




i'm sure i'll think up some more - please feel free to add you own!

Nev take no fo a ansah
 

intojoy

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What I am telling you is that without any actual sexual experience you are not qualified to speak to the subject. Where did you dredge up that "fact" about rape fantasies? Been reading old issues of Penthouse?

None oh yo biziss
 

intojoy

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A substantial minority of women admit to having rape fantasies. That's a fact. Are you really going to tell me, Eeset, that not even one of them feigned a "no" and resistance, even though they were quite willing?

10/4 good buddy
 

Crucible

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Again, you're talking about the law, societal practice, etc. That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm simply pointing out that the simple fact that a woman says "yes" at T1 doesn't mean that she continues to say "yes" at T2.

She could send a text message saying she wants to have sexual contact, change her mind, and then say "no." In those circumstances, the man in question should respect her wishes.

That's something that doesn't need to be expressed, as it is self-evident. I think that this even being discussed and brought up in the feminist movement is a degradation to men, insinuating that men need to be taught these things as if they are intrinsically rapists.

And that is misandry in which they can't wiggle themselves out of. They pretty much put themselves out there with this rape awareness thing. Feminism should be about the personal growth of women, not this growing assault and privilege over men.
 

Traditio

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That's something that doesn't need to be expressed, as it is self-evident.

This is something I find very strange about this entire thread. I haven't been promoting any kind of political agenda, feminist or anti-feminist, in this thread. I've only been arguing some pretty common sense notions that, as you yourself say, shouldn't even need to be expressed.

And yet people have insisted on disagreeing with me? :confused:

I think that this even being discussed and brought up in the feminist movement is a degradation to men, insinuating that men need to be taught these things as if they are intrinsically rapists.

And that is misandry in which they can't wiggle themselves out of. They pretty much put themselves out there with this rape awareness thing. Feminism should be about the personal growth of women, not this growing assault and privilege over men.

The world is a dangerous place for women, even in the United States. Women live in a very different world than we do. I am not entirely sure why this is. I don't know what the solution is. But I do think that it is something which requires our attention.
 

Crucible

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This is something I find very strange about this entire thread. I haven't been promoting any kind of political agenda, feminist or anti-feminist, in this thread. I've only been arguing some pretty common sense notions that, as you yourself say, shouldn't even need to be expressed.

And yet people have insisted on disagreeing with me? :confused:

I'm not saying you are perpetuating the agenda. It just so happens that the agenda encourages that kind of speech- they have their field day on such things as soon as the general subject arises.

The world is a dangerous place for women, even in the United States. Women live in a very different world than we do. I am not entirely sure why this is. I don't know what the solution is. But I do think that it is something which requires our attention.

The world is just as dangerous for men. It should all be attended to equally, because when only one is focused on, the other goes completely out of focus. There are a lot of things, real things, that men go through that needs to be addressed, but where has that been expressed? Even in attempting to do so, it is met with contempt and even denial that they exist.
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
Yes from her still means "no" from God if you aren't married.

:duh:

Again, so much of all of this would be irrelevant if people would follow the Lord's commands.
 

Traditio

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The world is just as dangerous for men. It should all be attended to equally, because when only one is focused on, the other goes completely out of focus. There are a lot of things, real things, that men go through that needs to be addressed, but where has that been expressed? Even in attempting to do so, it is met with contempt and even denial that they exist.

I don't really think that this is a fair assessment. I'll make another thread about this later...but to sum up:

I just don't think it's true that the world is dangerous for men and women in the same way. There legitimately are sexual/gender differences in the way that men and women live. Are you really afraid to hang out with a group of guys? How about a group of girls? Just how afraid are you of walking alone at night? And if you are afraid, is it because there's the possibility that you'll be raped? How often do you get cat-called and otherwise sexually objectified by women on a daily basis? And even if you do, how fearful are you that one of those women might overpower you and force you into doing something that you're not comfortable with? Are you afraid of being stalked either by a man or by a woman?
 

Crucible

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I don't really think that this is a fair assessment. I'll make another thread about this later...but to sum up:

I just don't think it's true that the world is dangerous for men and women in the same way. There legitimately are sexual/gender differences in the way that men and women live. Are you really afraid to hang out with a group of guys? How about a group of girls? Just how afraid are you of walking alone at night? And if you are afraid, is it because there's the possibility that you'll be raped? How often do you get cat-called and otherwise sexually objectified by women on a daily basis? And even if you do, how fearful are you that one of those women might overpower you and force you into doing something that you're not comfortable with? Are you afraid of being stalked either by a man or by a woman?

Cat calling is not 'objectification'. 'Objectification' is showing your assets for all the world to look at.

That's the worst construct of feminism- the 'victim complex'.


I saw a study recently which shows that men are twice as likely to face assault, but yet women are twice as likely to develop PTSD.
I believe that this wasn't always the case- there was a time when women were strong enough to take on reality.

It might sound harsh, but I don't believe most women really know what violence really is. Not if they are perpetuating this nonsense.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
We aren't talking about "polite discussion"....we're talking the PC TYRANTS of TOL. Poor Trad....you got sucked in....even though you didn't want to go there. :chuckle:




The TRYANTS demand details.



Propriety is too passé for the PC TYRANTS.















Not enough for the PC Tyrants.








They won't accept facts. Most women will freely admit to what you say, just as most women know full well they have helped a man unhook their own bras while saying no, but because you are a man you have no right to speak the truth. Just as women like me, who haven't swallowed the women's lib crazy pills, are deemed hard-hearted and evil. Common Sense has no place here.

Poor Trad, you've just been raped by the PC Tyrants. :rotfl:

Since when were you a spokesperson for 'most women'? How in the hell do you know that "most women" have helped a man unhook their bra while saying "no"?!! You really are demented. All you can blather about is 'PC' this and that as if that's the actual core of any of this. You need to actually present a proper argument for a change instead of spewing out the same stupid mantras...
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Since when were you a spokesperson for 'most women'?

At least I'm a woman, Artie. Which is more than I can say for you.


How in the hell do you know that "most women" have helped a man unhook their bra while saying "no"?!!

I misspoke. I meant to say most women know quite well that it happens.

You really are demented.

Perhaps I am....I'm still reading your posts. :think:


All you can blather about is 'PC' this and that as if that's the actual core of any of this. You need to actually present a proper argument for a change instead of spewing out the same stupid mantras...

At least I "blather" about more than you do. Your blathering seems to be nothing more than how stupid I am. And they said you had a brain. :chuckle:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
At least I'm a woman, Artie. Which is more than I can say for you.

Uh, you think it's a gender competition or something?

I misspoke. I meant to say most women know quite well that it happens.

Ya sure did, and what the heck do you mean 'most women know quite well that it happens'? What, that they're saying "no" while a bloke is removing their bra anyway and they're all actually okay with it? Eh?

Perhaps I am....I'm still reading your posts. :think:

That's so witty I almost frowned...

At least I "blather" about more than you do. Your blathering seems to be nothing more than how stupid I am. And they said you had a brain. :chuckle:

Oh you're not stupid. That's what makes your posts on this matter all the more insidious.
 

Traditio

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Ya sure did, and what the heck do you mean 'most women know quite well that it happens'? What, that they're saying "no" while a bloke is removing their bra anyway and they're all actually okay with it? Eh?

Sometimes. :idunno:

Again, it depends on the circumstances. Some women legitimately might be into that kind of thing.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Sometimes. :idunno:

Again, it depends on the circumstances. Some women legitimately might be into that kind of thing.

Trad, just stick to talking about stuff that nobody else is that interested in, like how Plato scored an own goal against Argentina in the 74 BC Mars world cup and blamed Socrates for it etc...

:plain:
 
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