The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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Clete

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I've mentioned this once before but since we're talking about measuring the curvature of the Earth I thought I'd bring it up again.

A really good experiment to measure the curvature of the Earth, that anyone could do with minimal expense is this...

Find a lake. Pretty much any lake will do but the ideal lake would be one that is sheltered from the wind and has little or no boat traffic on it so that there is as little wave action as possible. What we want is a nice flat stable surface.

In addition to being flat, it would make things easier if it wasn't very big. The reason I say that is because we're going to shooting laser pointers across the lake and the further away you get from shore, the more difficult it's going to be to get things lined up right. The thing that'll make this much easier is if you can have easy access to both sides of the lake.

So, once a suitable lake has been found (There's a perfect one right down the street from by employer's house!), then the first step is to set up a target on the far side of the lake. The more reflective the better. (I have a big Deer Crossing street sign in by garage that would be perfect because street signs reflect light straight back to the light source no matter which direction the light comes from.)

Then, go to the other side of the lake very near where you intend to launch your boat from but in a location that is in direct line of sight to your reflective target. Here we have to set up our laser pointer. It is critical to make sure that the laser is set up on stable ground and that is it pointed directly at that target across the lake AND that it is absolutely as close to perfectly level as you can figure out how to make it. This perfectly level part is, by far, the most technically difficult part of the experiment to achieve. I envision the use of plumb bobs and some sort of pre-made apparatus that will hold the laser securely in position but there are lots of ways to achieve this. Be creative!

Once your laser is set up properly and pointed at your target across the lake, the next step is to set up a target on the boat. This target needs to have some sort of graduated lines on it so that a measurement can be made, so a ruler or graph paper or whatever. Also make sure that it is a color that makes it easy to see the dot from your laser pointer, so no red targets unless you're using a green laser.

Once you have the target secured to the boat, the next step is to get the boat as close to your laser pointer as possible while still being on the surface of the water. Move the boat slowly and move around on the boat as little as possible so as to keep things as stable as possible and once you get the boat into a position where the laser is hitting the boat's target, take your first measurement by marking where the target is being hit. If your target it adjustable, you can adjust it so that the laser hits a specific place on your target but either way, you want a good measurement for where the laser line is on this side of the lake. Every move you make on the boat is going to wobble things around so filming this and pausing the video later may be the most accurate way to take the measurement.

Now that this measurement has been made, head across the lake and find the laser dot over there. This is where your target on the other shore is going to make things much easier! Once you find the dot and stabilize the boat as much as possible, make another measurement.

The curvature of the Earth is 7.98 inches per mile, so if you're even as much as 1/4 mile from the laser pointer, the dot should be about 2 inches higher on your boat target because you've dropped two inches due to the curvature of the Earth. If so, you will have empirically proven that the surface of large bodies of water are not as flat as they look to the naked eye and that the Earth is, in fact, a sphere.

I hope, unbelievably, to do this experiment myself. If I do, I'll certainly post my results here. Ideally, I want to film it and maybe post the whole thing on YouTube, which would be super cool, regardless of the results.

Clete
 

JudgeRightly

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I've mentioned this once before but since we're talking about measuring the curvature of the Earth I thought I'd bring it up again.

A really good experiment to measure the curvature of the Earth, that anyone could do with minimal expense is this...

Find a lake. Pretty much any lake will do but the ideal lake would be one that is sheltered from the wind and has little or no boat traffic on it so that there is as little wave action as possible. What we want is a nice flat stable surface.

In addition to being flat, it would make things easier if it wasn't very big. The reason I say that is because we're going to shooting laser pointers across the lake and the further away you get from shore, the more difficult it's going to be to get things lined up right. The thing that'll make this much easier is if you can have easy access to both sides of the lake.

So, once a suitable lake has been found (There's a perfect one right down the street from by employer's house!), then the first step is to set up a target on the far side of the lake. The more reflective the better. (I have a big Deer Crossing street sign in by garage that would be perfect because street signs reflect light straight back to the light source no matter which direction the light comes from.)

Then, go to the other side of the lake very near where you intend to launch your boat from but in a location that is in direct line of sight to your reflective target. Here we have to set up our laser pointer. It is critical to make sure that the laser is set up on stable ground and that is it pointed directly at that target across the lake AND that it is absolutely as close to perfectly level as you can figure out how to make it. This perfectly level part is, by far, the most technically difficult part of the experiment to achieve. I envision the use of plumb bobs and some sort of pre-made apparatus that will hold the laser securely in position but there are lots of ways to achieve this. Be creative!

Once your laser is set up properly and pointed at your target across the lake, the next step is to set up a target on the boat. This target needs to have some sort of graduated lines on it so that a measurement can be made, so a ruler or graph paper or whatever. Also make sure that it is a color that makes it easy to see the dot from your laser pointer, so no red targets unless you're using a green laser.

Once you have the target secured to the boat, the next step is to get the boat as close to your laser pointer as possible while still being on the surface of the water. Move the boat slowly and move around on the boat as little as possible so as to keep things as stable as possbible and once you get the boat into a position where the laser is hitting the boat's target, take your first measurement by marking where the target is being hit. If your target it adjustable, you can adjust it so that the laser hits a specific place on your target but either way, you want a good measurement for where the laser line is on this side of the lake.

Now that this measurement has been made, head across the lake and find the laser dot over there. This is where your target on the other shore is going to make things much easier! Once you find the dot and stabilize the boat as much as possible, make another measurement.

The curvature of the Earth is 7.98 inches per mile, so if you're even as much as 1/4 mile from the laser pointer, the dot should be about 2 inches higher on your boat target because you've dropped two inches due to the curvature of the Earth. If so, you will have empirically proven that the surface of large bodies of water are not as flat as they look to the naked eye and that the Earth is, in fact, a sphere.

I hope, unbelievably, to do this experiment myself. If I do, I'll certainly post my results here. Ideally, I want to film it and maybe post the whole thing on YouTube, which would be super cool, regardless of the results.

Clete
I imagine that you could do a similar experiment, setting up a mirror on the opposite side of the lake from the laser-pointer, making it as vertical as possible, and the laser as level as possible, and then measure how high above the pointer the laser is reflected off the mirror.

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DFT_Dave

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The problem could also be a failure to grasp just how minuscule 54 feet is, when compared to 9 miles.

What you can know is that you are driving on "flat level road" foot by foot, mile by mile, which you can see. If I can stop on the road and see flat level road behind me, I just traveled, and I can see three miles of road ahead of me which I can drive through, then I have no reason to believe that a six mile stretch of road dropped 24 feet.

You can easily see on this road in the picture gives us a three mile view of flat earth and if you look behind you and also see another three miles of flat road you have 6 miles of flat earth. If you go another three miles and see flat road ahead of you, you now have 9 miles of confirmed flat earth, etc.

This picture is a flat level road of three miles at least. Any camera with a telephoto lens that can show us objects in full view of more than three miles would be further proof of a flat plane. Imagine having a tub of water not very deep and as you travel a road like this it would show "level". If you go down a slight hill the water in the tub would show an angle that you could measure the degree of. Simple geometry to determine degree of incline or decline requires a level plane. If the tub of water never shows any degree of sustained angle for a distance of three, then, six, then 9, etc. then that would be proof of a flat, not curved, plane/earth.

Is Kansas flat as a pancake?
"Three geographers compared the flatness of Kansas to the flatness of a pancake. They used topographic data from a digital scale model prepared by the US Geological Survey, and they purchased a pancake from the International House of Pancakes. If perfect flatness were a value of 1.00, they reported, the calculated flatness of a pancake would be 0.957 "which is pretty flat, but far from perfectly flat". Kansas's flatness however turned out to be 0.997, which they said might be described, mathematically, as 'damn flat'." --The Guardian (link from title)

View attachment 25212 View attachment 25213

"Mathematically, a value of 1.000 would indicate perfect, platonic flatness. The state is so flat that the off-the-shelf software produced a flatness value for it of 1. This value was, as they say, too good to be true, so we did a more complex analysis, and after many hours of programming work, we were able to estimate that Kansas’s flatness is approximately 0.9997. --Improbable Research

Kansas is 400 miles of perfectly flat level earth, with no curvature.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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There are at least two things wrong with this thought experiment.

1. Roads are built by people who can introduce more flatness than is there naturally. Therefore roads are not the best things to use for such an experiment. It would be better to use something we know is "level" such as the surface of a lake.

2. The argument you've cited has their number off by a factor of 9!
The curvature of the Earth is nowhere near 54 feet in 9 miles. It's more like 8 inches per mile. So over 9 miles, the curvature would be 72 inches or 6 feet, not 54 feet!

There are 5280 feet per mile so the drop due to the curvature of the earth, at 8 inches (2/3 of a foot) per mile is about 0.00012626%. No road anywhere in the world is that perfectly flat over a 9 mile stretch of road and even if it were perfectly level, where every point along the road was perfectly perpendicular to the center of the Earth, there's no way imaginable that you could detect it with your naked eyes unless you were way-way far away! In fact, the curvature of the Earth is not detectable by the naked eye until you're more than six and a half miles above its surface.

Pythagorean geometry says the drop is 54 feet in 9 miles. I provided the chart, take a look. You are wrong or the geometry is wrong. Your measurement is a straight line of drop not a spherical curve calculated drop.

View attachment 25210

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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The Great Plains are flat, not curved lands

"The Great Plains is the broad expanse of flat land (a plain), much of it covered in prairie, steppe and grassland, that lies west of the Mississippi River tall grass prairie states and east of the Rocky Mountains in the United States and Canada. This area covers parts, but not all, of the states of Colorado, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, and Wyoming, Minnesota, Iowa and the Canadian provinces of Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. The Canadian portion of the Plains is known as the Prairies. The region is about 500 miles east to west and 2,000 miles north to south"--Wiki

The Great plains have hills and valleys, but it is virtually flat not curved.

--Dave
 

Clete

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Pythagorean geometry says the drop is 54 feet in 9 miles. I provided the chart, take a look. You are wrong or the geometry is wrong. Your measurement is a straight line of drop not a spherical curve calculated drop.

View attachment 25210

--Dave
You're absolutely right! My bad!

I made an error thinking that the fall away is linear. It is, in fact, geometric.

The curvature of the earth is 7.98 inches per mile SQUARED!

So the first mile is 8 inches, the second mile would be 32 inches, the third would be 72 inches and so on. If 3 miles drops 72 inches then three times that far (9 miles) would drop 9 times as much, yielding 648 inches or 54 feet.

This would make my lake experiment a bit harder because after only a quarter mile the drop would not be the 2 inches I was anticipating. In fact, each time the distance doubles, the drop quadruples. So if the drop is 8 inches per mile, at half that distance the drop would be 2 inches and at one quarter of a mile, the drop would only be 1/2 inch.

That might still be measurable with my proposed experiment but it'll be a lot harder than I anticipated because you could easily get and probably would get that much atmospheric light refraction.
 

JudgeRightly

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I think you might be right!

I made an error thinking that the fall away is linear. It, of course, is not.

The curvature of the earth is 7.98 inches per mile SQUARED!

So the first mile is 8 inches, the second mile would be 32 inches, the third would be 72 inches and so on.

This would make my lake experiment a bit harder because after only a quarter mile the drop would not be the 2 inches I was anticipating. In fact, each time the distance doubles, the drop quadruples. So if the drop is 8 inches per mile, at half that distance the drop would 2 inches and at on equarter mile the drop would only be 1/2 inch.

That might still be measurable with my proposed experiment but it'll be a lot harder than I anticipated because you could easily get and probably would get that much atmospheric light refraction.
Don't let this go to your head, Dave.
Pythagorean geometry says the drop is 54 feet in 9 miles. I provided the chart, take a look. You are wrong or the geometry is wrong. Your measurement is a straight line of drop not a spherical curve calculated drop.

View attachment 25210

--Dave


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Clete

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I'm out of time for today. I want to know about how the atmosphere would interfere with my lake experiment. My intution says that it can be ignored because the light beam doesn't enter or leave the atmosphere throughout the experiment and so it seems like the light should travel in a straight line over the lake, presuming very little or no wind.

If anyone can confirm that for me, I'd be thankful. Otherwise, I'll have to look into whenever time allows.


It feels totally insane to say this but I just am enjoying the crap out of this thread!
 

DFT_Dave

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17 miles curvature test from San Mateo Bridge to Bay Bridge

This 6 min video is very convincing. No laser beam required.


--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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You're absolutely right! My bad!

I made an error thinking that the fall away is linear. It is, in fact, geometric.

The curvature of the earth is 7.98 inches per mile SQUARED!

So the first mile is 8 inches, the second mile would be 32 inches, the third would be 72 inches and so on. If 3 miles drops 72 inches then three times that far (9 miles) would drop 9 times as much, yielding 648 inches or 54 feet.

This would make my lake experiment a bit harder because after only a quarter mile the drop would not be the 2 inches I was anticipating. In fact, each time the distance doubles, the drop quadruples. So if the drop is 8 inches per mile, at half that distance the drop would be 2 inches and at one quarter of a mile, the drop would only be 1/2 inch.

That might still be measurable with my proposed experiment but it'll be a lot harder than I anticipated because you could easily get and probably would get that much atmospheric light refraction.

I've seen many laser test videos and they all are problematic.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave- Why are they hiding the truth from us? What's the purpose of this massive fraud?

Who are "they"?
They are few compared to the many. Some heads of government, not all of them. The heads of NASA, the majority of workers would not have to know. Only a few astronauts would know not all of them would have to. The secret societies: Free Masons, The Illuminati, Bilderberg.

Massive stupidity is the reason
Most people just never want to question the status quo. Most people fear societal or worldly rejection, being called idiot, stupid, etc.

Massive mind control is the means
Those who want to control you don't want you to trust your own senses, make your own observations, or think antithesis. They want you to think synthesis and dialectic.

The take over of this world by Satan is the goal
He will deceive the whole world.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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There is no horizon on Flat Earth - Nikon coolpix P900

This is proof of an invisible, to the eye, extended horizon line, above the one we can see, that proves there is no curvature. A curvature would put the extended unseen to us horizon line below the one we can see.

This is the best single proof I have yet seen of flat earth.


--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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There is no horizon on Flat Earth - Nikon coolpix P900

This is proof of an invisible, to the eye, extended horizon line, above the one we can see, that proves there is no curvature. A curvature would put the extended unseen to us horizon line below the one we can see.

This is the best single proof I have yet seen of flat earth.


--Dave
So is there an extended horizon line here as well?
285a0338b9ae9b081c1f8ca180419992.jpg


And here?
2dbf97e9ab52c39e9bd307a32ec4412c.jpg


And here?
31e6ba5272557167b691e5583684154f.jpg


The answer is no. It's called a mirage, and it's a reflection off a flat surface caused by heat waves. This is a well known phenomenon, and photographers should learn about it to be able to keep their images sharp.
https://fstoppers.com/education/warning-long-lens-shooters-heat-wave-distortion-40508

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