ECT MADist thought for the day

Status
Not open for further replies.

graceandpeace

New member
So...when one 'uses' the Holy Spirit, all readers will come to the same conclusions even without applying an allegorical spin to interpretation?

I continually see teachers/preachers, who all claim the illumination of the Holy Spirit, disagree on their interpretation of the exact same scripture.

It seems to me, that the claim, "the Holy Spirit informed me", becomes a spiritual ace card that claims to trump anyone who happens to disagree.

Did Jesus lie?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I often get mocked because I believe this.:(
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Did Jesus lie?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I often get mocked because I believe this.:(

My statements were not intended to be mockery.

Jesus lie?....of course not.

Who was Jesus speaking to in John 16:13?

Is the Spirit of Truth presently revealing things to you about the future?
 

graceandpeace

New member
My statements were not intended to be mockery.

Jesus lie?....of course not.

Who was Jesus speaking to in John 16:13?

Is the Spirit of Truth presently revealing things to you about the future?

I was not speaking of you with the 'mocking'..I was speaking of others on this board, whom when I state that Jesus is my teacher, they mock me for it.

Yes, the Spirit of Truth reveals things to me about my past, my present and my future.

...as revealed by the Word of God. Jesus is the Word...and, He was speaking of the Holy Spirit, which is the same as God/Christ in you, whom teaches us all things.

It is simple really.
 

voltaire

BANNED
Banned
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.



Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

The bible gives plenty of interpretation tools if you just compare scripture with scripture. Now, if you are into the game of trading a bible version of a verse when the one at hand destroys your theology, comparing scripture with scripture won't help at all.
 

graceandpeace

New member
The bible gives plenty of interpretation tools if you just compare scripture with scripture. Now, if you are into the game of trading a bible version of a verse when the one at hand destroys your theology, comparing scripture with scripture won't help at all.

amen
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I was not speaking of you with the 'mocking'..I was speaking of others on this board, whom when I state that Jesus is my teacher, they mock me for it.

Yes, the Spirit of Truth reveals things to me about my past, my present and my future.

...as revealed by the Word of God. Jesus is the Word...and, He was speaking of the Holy Spirit, which is the same as God/Christ in you, whom teaches us all things.

It is simple really.

Not so simple.

People might mock you for saying something they suspect or know is wrong, when you claim that everything you say is right because the Lord showed you.

It is only possible to know everything right when one has laid down all to follow what Christ has said and says.

(and guess what, Christ knew a lot before his baptism by John, and his brothers and sisters did not know who he was)

Children do not have that capacity and mature people never make that claim, because it tends to take away the right of others to decide on matters and confuses them especially if the Lord HAS shown them something different to what you understand.

Then there is the matter of it being the Lords right to decide what others should know, with him knowing their hearts.

It is not our decision, it is His, and we have no God given right to brow beat others and critisize them for not understanding whether it be their own fault or not.

LA.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The 'elements' are the things contained in the old covenant law system...do a search..WINK

:thumb:

Yes, the word "elements" is only used two other times in the Bible, and neither time does "elements" describe what the MADists claim it does.

"elements" refers to the laws of the OC

(Gal 4:9-10)

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.


As we see above, the word "elements" is used to describe feast days and holidays of the Mosaic Law that Paul calls bondgage.

These are the "elements" that Peter refers to that are burned up in 2 Peter 3:10 and 3 Peter 3:12
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.



Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Do you even know that Rev 7:16 is John quoting Isaiah 49:10?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
:thumb:

Yes, the word "elements" is only used two other times in the Bible, and neither time does "elements" describe what the MADists claim it does.

"elements" refers to the laws of the OC

(Gal 4:9-10)

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.


As we see above, the word "elements" is used to describe feast days and holidays of the Mosaic Law that Paul calls bondgage.

These are the "elements" that Peter refers to that are burned up in 2 Peter 3:10 and 3 Peter 3:12


I see.

So in the day of the judgment and punishment of all the wicked, God will burn up the feast days and holidays of the Mosiac law???

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

LA
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
:thumb:

Yes, the word "elements" is only used two other times in the Bible, and neither time does "elements" describe what the MADists claim it does.

"elements" refers to the laws of the OC

(Gal 4:9-10)

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.


As we see above, the word "elements" is used to describe feast days and holidays of the Mosaic Law that Paul calls bondgage.

These are the "elements" that Peter refers to that are burned up in 2 Peter 3:10 and 3 Peter 3:12


By that logic, then it's time to scald the milk too....... I guess.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles[same word-stoicheion] of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Words don't mean much until they're put in context.
The same word used in different places in scripture can apply to different things.
To say that, just because a particular word in the Greek is used in different places in scripture always has to mean the same thing, is a poor hermeneutical approach.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
By that logic, then it's time to scald the milk too....... I guess.

You're proving my point.

It's not physics, it's ethics.

Words don't mean much until they're put in context.
The same word used in different places in scripture can apply to different things.

I am putting it in context.

The context is not a literal burning of planet earth, and then the creation of a new planet earth.

The context is the doing away with the temple and the OC, and the full implementation of the NC.

To say that, just because a particular word in the Greek is used in different places in scripture always has to mean the same thing, is a poor hermeneutical approach.

I'm not saying a word "always" means the same thing. For example the word "sea" ,many times literally means a sea, but other times means Gentiles.

I showed that the word "elements" is only used 4 times in the KJV, and each time the word DOES mean the same thing.

Because you are a dispensationalist, you will disagree because you need "elements" to mean the physical elements that make up the planet in order for your dispensationalism to work out.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

I don't think you do.

So in the day of the judgment and punishment of all the wicked, God will burn up the feast days and holidays of the Mosiac law???

Not literally.

In 70AD the feast days, along with the OC were "burned up" (not literally)

Are your works literally wood, hay, & stuble and/or gold, silver, & precious stones?

On judgment day will there literally be a fire with wood, hay, and stuble from unbelievers thrown in it?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
You're proving my point.

It's not physics, it's ethics.



I am putting it in context.

The context is not a literal burning of planet earth, and then the creation of a new planet earth.

The context is the doing away with the temple and the OC, and the full implementation of the NC.



I'm not saying a word "always" means the same thing. For example the word "sea" ,many times literally means a sea, but other times means Gentiles.

I showed that the word "elements" is only used 4 times in the KJV, and each time the word DOES mean the same thing.

Because you are a dispensationalist, you will disagree because you need "elements" to mean the physical elements that make up the planet in order for your dispensationalism to work out.

Nope....I don't 'need' it to mean anything. It's 'what it means' that matters to me:

στοιχεῖον
stoicheíon; gen. stoicheíou, neut. noun, a diminutive stoíchos (n.f.), row. Always in the pl., tá stoicheía, the basic parts, rudiments, elements, or components of something. Among the ancient Greek philosophers, it designated the four basic and essential elements of which the universe consisted, namely, earth, water, air, and fire. In 2Pe_3:10, 2Pe_3:12 the word carries this meaning. Figuratively it refers to the elements or first principles of the Christian doctrine (Heb_5:12). Paul calls the ceremonial ordinances of the Mosaic Law worldly elements (Gal_4:3; Col_2:8, Col_2:20). In Gal_4:9 he calls them weak and poor elements when contrasted with the great realities to which they were designed to lead. These elements contain the rudiments of the knowledge of Christ. The Law, as a school-master, was to bring the Jews to this knowledge (Gal_3:24).-"Word Study Dictionary" Spiros Zodhiates

Elements

stoicheion (G4747), used in the plural, primarily signifies any first things from which others in a series, or a composite whole take their rise; the word denotes "an element, first principle" (from stoichos, "a row, rank, series"; cf. the verb stoicheo, "to walk or march in rank"; see WALK); it was used of the letters of the alphabet, as elements of speech. In the NT it is used of (a) the substance of the material world, 2Pe_3:10, 2Pe_3:12; (b) the delusive speculations of gentile cults and of Jewish theories, treated as elementary principles, "the rudiments of the world," Col_2:8, spoken of as "philosophy and vain deceit"; these were presented as superior to faith in Christ; at Colosse the worship of angels, mentioned in Col_2:18, is explicable by the supposition, held by both Jews and Gentiles in that district, that the constellations were either themselves animated heavenly beings, or were governed by them; (c) the rudimentary principles of religion, Jewish or Gentile, also described as "the rudiments of the world," Col_2:20, and as "weak and beggarly rudiments," Gal_4:3, Gal_4:9, RV, constituting a yoke of bondage; (d) the "elementary" principles (the A.B.C.) of the OT, as a revelation from God, Heb_5:12, RV, "rudiments," lit., "the rudiments of the beginning of the oracles of God," such as are taught to spiritual babes. See PRINCIPLES, RUDIMENTS.-"Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Terms"

στοιχεῖον
stoicheion
Thayer Definition:
1) any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal
1a) the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds
1b) the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe
1c) the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside
1d) the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline
1d1) i.e. of mathematics, Euclid’s geometry
-"Thayer's Greek Definitions"
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Point me to where this is shown in scripture.

Good luck!
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
-Revelation 21:2
 

noguru

Well-known member
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
-Revelation 21:2

Beside the garden walls,
We walk in haunts of ancient peace.
At night we rest and go to sleep
In haunts of ancient peace.
The love and light we seek,
The words we do not need to speak,
Here in this wondrous way we keep
These haunts of ancient peace.
Let us go there again
When we need some relief
Oh, when I can't find my feet
When I need rest and sleep.
The Sunday bells they chime
Around the countryside and towns
A song of harmony and rhyme
In haunts of ancient peace.
The holy grail we seek
On down by haunts of ancient peace.
We see the new Jerusalem
In haunts of ancient peace.
Oh, when I can't find my feet
Oh, when I need some relief
One more time again.
You know I want to go there one more time again.
Be still in haunts of ancient peace.
(Be still)
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I don't think you do.



Not literally.

In 70AD the feast days, along with the OC were "burned up" (not literally)

Are your works literally wood, hay, & stuble and/or gold, silver, & precious stones?

On judgment day will there literally be a fire with wood, hay, and stuble from unbelievers thrown in it?

2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


LA.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nope....I don't 'need' it to mean anything. It's 'what it means' that matters to me:

Are the works that you do literally wood, hay, & stuble and/or gold, silver, & precious stones?

Using your dictionaries, can wood and gold have the definition of "works"?
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
-Revelation 21:2

Like I said, there is not one verse in the Bible that says the New Jerusalem comes to planet earth.
 

Sheila B

Member
Can you build a biblical case and demonstrate for us what "it" was?

Tradition is necessary to know the meaning.

The closing words to the Seder supper He began in the Upper room; the fulfillment of:
"the Chalice of my Blood shed for you".
The Bread which I will give for the life of the world is My Flesh.

A new covenant meal is inaugurated and it has it's completion at that moment in time. "It is finished."
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Tradition is necessary to know the meaning.

The closing words to the Seder supper He began in the Upper room; the fulfillment of:
"the Chalice of my Blood shed for you".
The Bread which I will give for the life of the world is My Flesh.

A new covenant meal is inaugurated and it has it's completion at that moment in time. "It is finished."

Read Psalms 22:13-18 (KJV)

and

John 19



It should become clear what "it" is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top