Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Do NOT Have Saving Faith

[jamie]

The church of Jesus Christ IS His Kingdom. Revelation 21:1-22:21

There are many people on earth today that do not belong to Christ. They are not part of his kingdom.

 

[Robert Pate]

There are many people on earth today that do not belong to Christ. They are not part of his kingdom.

The door to the Kingdom of God is by hearing and believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Nang]

There are many people on earth today that do not belong to Christ. They are not part of his kingdom.

True, but that does not mean Christ does not reign over them.

 

[Robert Pate]

I have nothing to do with Calvinism and don't care what they believe. I'm only speaking from experience as being one of God's servants who understands that all religions, traditions and pagan doctrines come from the worshiping of the beast.

Including Calvinism.

 

[Robert Pate]

True, but that does not mean Christ does not reign over them.

Only those that are "In Christ" belong to Christ and are indwelt with his Spirit. Everyone outside of Christ are controlled by the devil.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

It is that simple.
Jesus says it is hid from the wise and learned and given to children.

What is the "it" that you are referring to above? What is hid from the wise and given to children?

And the Bible also warns that some things in Scripture are hard to understand that that people can twist the Scriptures to their destruction. 2 Peter 3:16.

Repent for following falseness and start believing and obeying what is written.

If I followed falseness I would stop. I believe I do obey what is written.

By the way, who do you think should repent: the Lutheran pastor who baptizes babies or the Baptist pastor who doesn't? Who is not following what is written?

Do not lean to the left or to the right, do not add or subtract.

Vague generalizations like your statement above mean very little because who has the authority to determine what is leaning left or right or adding or subtracting?

You said they greeted each other with a holy kiss, you then went on to argue that it does not say it was not a holy kiss on the feet.

What don’t you get that your pope is a sinner and not preaching and teaching things from God?

I do get that the Pope is a sinner where did you ever get the idea that the Pope isn't a sinner?

I never said that. Has anybody ever said that? That sounds to me like a misconception that you have about Popes.

Catholics do not have that misconception.

Did you know that Pope John Paul II confessed his sins weekly? Every week.

The Pope does preach and teach the things from God.

You don't agree...but what does that mean, really?

What don’t you get that your Catholic pope does NOT tell anyone to stop bowing to him and kissing his feet?

Because you are wrong. Some Popes do and have told people not to do that.

What don't you get about bowing being acceptable as a sign of respect according to the Bible?

What don’t you get that not all Catholics having to bow to him does NOT mean your pope is not doing wrong?

Just your pope calling himself a ‘pope’ is a sin against God.

Really? What sin would that be?

Your pope even allows himself to be called ‘holy father’. That name is what Jesus called His Father in heaven. It should make you cringe to hear your leader called that.

Nope. No cringing going on here.

All that is needed is the proper understanding of what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 23:9.

Only an improper understanding would lead someone to cringe.

And they would have to cringe at the Pope, and at St. Paul, and at St. Stephen and even at Jesus Himself because they all went against the words of Jesus in Matthew 23.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

No, your church is a denomination, and what it teaches shows that it is apostate.

Sorry. That is not true historically.

What it teaches is the Truth. You have already shown that much of what you believe the Church to teach, isn't really what she teaches at all.

Look, I am not going to quote the new list that you have included in this post. And I can't respond to it all because it will get too long.

So I will only respond to a couple of items. But the errors you made in those couple of places will call into question the entirety of your list.

First of all, by merely making a list of things that you disagree with about the Church proves nothing. Just like your other list. Each topic would have to be looked at to see if it contains truth or falsehood.

A list all by itself proves nothing.

320 Wax Candles introduced in church.

I am assuming that you mean 320 A.D. here. Well, my first reaction is....so what? What exactly is that supposed to prove?

Let's see, 320 A.D. ...no electricity, no batteries and flashlights, no gas powered generators, no solar panels, etc. What are the options for lighting up a place? Torches, perhaps, a fire place maybe, and...candles.

Including this in your list proves absolutely nothing.

In order for it to prove something you would have to say something like: "Candles should not be used in a worship service because.......(and then insert here a biblical passage or biblical principle that shows why using candles is wrong).

You have failed to show why using candles is wrong.

But you could clarify why using wax candles in a church is wrong.

So tell me, where does Scripture forbid the use of wax candles in a church? Thanks.

Note: Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."

False. You really should check your sources instead of just accepting some bogus list from somebody else and believing that it is true. Is this a Loraine Boettner list?

Anyways, there is biblical evidence that Peter was in Rome. In 1 Peter 5:13 Peter refers to Babylon. But they weren't really in Babylon. That was a code name for the enemy of the Church....Rome.

Also, there are several historical authors who explicitly state that Peter was at Rome. One of them is Irenaeus who wrote about 190 A.D. in "Against Heresies": "The greatest and most ancient church known to all was founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul."

So you are completely wrong to say that there is no mention in scripture or in history.

I would like to see you cite a source for the Clement quote. That quote sounds completely bogus on the face of it because Clement himself lived and died in the 1st century. Why would somebody living and dying in the 1st century say there is no 1st century evidence? That doesn't make any sense.

...and many more.

Actually, the "many more" is errors that could be pointed out with your list. But there isn't room or time to do that all at once.

That is what I am doing; I am proving it to you.

That is what you are failing to do. You claimed that I do not obey God but the Pope.

I am in the only true Church, the body of Christ, and Christ Jesus has authority.

That's what I figured you'd say. So Luke 10:16, Matthew 18:17, Matthew 28:20 simply do not apply to you, right?

Well, those apply to those in Jesus' Church....because Jesus set it up that way. Like it or not.

You will not have power to do that if you do not obey Jesus. The Catholic denomination teaches you to do things against God.

Nope. Your misunderstandings of what the Catholic Church actually teaches do not qualify as teachings against God. They are simply straw men.

Jesus says what comes out of the mouth is an overflow from the heart.

So we should look at that Scripture passage and see if what Jesus said means that you can conclude what you did in post #177:

You are throwing your brain and heart and soul to the Catholic's pope,

Because I betcha anything that that is not what Jesus meant.

You don't even barely know me at all but you think you can make such a statement about me and back it up with a Scripture verse.

The scriptures say his body is the Church.

We are part of his body. His body is the Church.

If you read a little more carefully, this is a point that we agree on and have been agreeing on for some time.:thumb:

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You are merely repeating yourself, and I keep explaining the same thing to you repeatedly.

Not true.

You indirectly told me that in your church you do not offer incense as Malachi prophecies will happen. You tried to avoid a direct "no" by saying that it is representative of prayers.

You indirectly answered the question about how nobody in your church holds authority over you like we see Jesus giving His authority to the leaders of His church in Luke 10:16 and elsewhere.

You still haven't answered my question: How is Paul praying FOR someone NOT mediating? If it is not mediating what is it?

You still haven't answered that. Why not?

I will tell you what...

You give me one link to read and respond to, and I will give you just one link.

The condition is that we have to read what is said in the link, we had to read it carefully, and then we are to come back here and give our response.

How about that?

Well, I am glad to see that you have changed your mind about using links.

But, honestly, I don't like that idea. Not for a public forum. You and I are gonna read links and have a discussion? What about everybody else? I think what you are suggesting would be appropriate for a PM discussion.

I am enjoying our discussion, but we are trying to talk about too many things at once. That is inefficient and ineffective and posts get too long.

But if we narrow it down and talk about one topic at a time, I would be more inclined to think that that might work.

I am frustrated with the number of topics that we are discussing at one time.

 

[Truster]

All forms of worship, all religions and denominations have their root in one fact, the general revelation:

"because that which may be known of Elohim is manifest in them; for Elohim hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Divinity; so that they are without excuse:"

All people are subject to the general revelation. Some of the people are so influenced that they feel a need to serve, to worship. If they go to worship in christianity they are soon led to believe they have been converted, but that is a lie. The revelation of the existence and the power of the Eternal Almighty is not salvation, it is entering through the wide gate and many go in thereat.

The ecclesia, the one true congregation, is founded upon Apostles and the Prophets, Messiah being the Chief cornerstone.

The revelation of grace is accompanied by the revelation of the Sovereignty of the Eternal Almighty in salvation. This is finding the strait gate and few there be that find it...

 

[Robert Pate]

What does "Christ" mean from your point of view?

Jesus is the savior and the redeemer of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

By his righteous sinless life he has fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. He did this in our name and on our behalf. Because he was without sin he was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world. The law has been fulfilled and sin has been atoned for. WE now stand complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did becomes ours by simple child like faith.