Who Posted?

[Arsenios]

Do Catholics Believe in Reincarnation?

no

is it binding?

no catholic should be held responsible for what is contained in our over 700 pages of catechism

Individual parishoners are not responsible for the 700 pages, no question...

BUT...

IF...

A person shows a parishoner that that they are saying something that contradicts Catholic Dogma and demonstrates the error from the catechism, then the one contradicting Catholic Dogma should be willing to BE CORRECTED by the Catholic Church, and if not, should be taken out of Communion until he recants...

Otherwise, he should just be a Protestant who MOSTLY AGREES with the Latin Catholics...

Arsenios

 

[Town Heretic]

Not MINE, I am overjoyed to report!

Interesting. You're a rare fellow then, in my experience. For me it begins with the cross, Christ and grace. Most of the disagreements between churches are over the non salvific and I mostly see that as a tragedy, given the vitriol it stirs between members of the Body and the impact of that on the larger witness of Christendom among the heathen.

 

[chrysostom]

not even preists?

bishops?

cardinals?


the big guy?

any priest, bishop, cardinal, could believe privately in reincarnation
but
it would be wrong for them to teach it

the big guy? whatever he says is okay

 

[chrysostom]

Individual parishoners are not responsible for the 700 pages, no question...

BUT...

IF...

A person shows a parishoner that that they are saying something that contradicts Catholic Dogma and demonstrates the error from the catechism, then the one contradicting Catholic Dogma should be willing to BE CORRECTED by the Catholic Church, and if not, should be taken out of Communion until he recants...

Otherwise, he should just be a Protestant who MOSTLY AGREES with the Latin Catholics...

Arsenios

yes but I have two questions for you

do you think my salvation will depend on my belief regarding reincarnation?

is this not a religious forum where we discuss ideas?

 

[chrysostom]

Interesting. You're a rare fellow then, in my experience. For me it begins with the cross, Christ and grace. Most of the disagreements between churches are over the non salvific and I mostly see that as a tragedy, given the vitriol it stirs between members of the Body and the impact of that on the larger witness of Christendom among the heathen.

so my question to you town is

is belief in reincarnation a non salvific belief?

 

[resodko]

any priest, bishop, cardinal, could believe privately in reincarnation
but
it would be wrong for them to teach it

the big guy? whatever he says is okay

that's why he's the big guy! :thumb:

 

[Town Heretic]

so my question to you town is

is belief in reincarnation a non salvific belief?

I think it is a serious divergence from the gospel, but I leave the fate of souls to Christ. The salvific is the authority of Christ, the divinity of Christ and the understanding that absent grace we are convicted in our sin and rightly separated from the good for eternity, that we must repent and embrace that authority and sacrifice if we are to be reconciled to God through Christ.

I'm sure that many who love God are still as fallible as they were before they did, that men will often for the best of reasons come to the wrong conclusion. I think that this reality is one of the reasons we should be grateful for grace and pray for correction in the privacy of our walks.

 

[chrysostom]

I think it is a serious divergence from the gospel,

we don't use the word 'serious' unless it is serious
so
once again I find you insinuating

don't worry
I won't ask you how or why it is a serious divergence from the gospel

see what I did there?

 

[resodko]

we don't use the word 'serious' unless it is serious
so
once again I find you insinuating

don't worry
I won't ask you how or why it is a serious divergence from the gospel

see what I did there?

 

[Town Heretic]

we don't use the word 'serious' unless it is serious
so
once again I find you insinuating

That's because you can't separate your emotions from your consideration, can't look at at thing fairly if you have that stake in it, which is why I suspected my answering you wouldn't amount to much.

It's serious as errors go. I said it. That's not insinuation. And I was equally clear about what I see as salvific.

don't worry
I won't ask you how or why it is a serious divergence from the gospel

see what I did there?

I think anyone who can look at my answer and this should see exactly what you continue to do.

More's the pity. And now you've been given more than you and that approach were due.

 

[Arsenios]

yes but

NO yezbutts or yahbutts!

I have two questions for you

Sure...

do you think my salvation will depend on my belief regarding reincarnation?

I do not know your belief regarding reincarnation...

You may recall Paul saying he would not eat meat forever if it stumbled his weaker brothers for whom Christ died... And he wrote that we are to obey those appointed over us... But these are only instructions for those desiring union with God...

is this not a religious forum where we discuss ideas?

What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?

Arsenios

 

[OCTOBER23]

THIS IS CHRYSTOSTOMP'S THREAD , SO HE MUST BE THE POSTER.

rotfl

 

[patrick jane]

I think it is a serious divergence from the gospel, but I leave the fate of souls to Christ. The salvific is the authority of Christ, the divinity of Christ and the understanding that absent grace we are convicted in our sin and rightly separated from the good for eternity, that we must repent and embrace that authority and sacrifice if we are to be reconciled to God through Christ.

I'm sure that many who love God are still as fallible as they were before they did, that men will often for the best of reasons come to the wrong conclusion. I think that this reality is one of the reasons we should be grateful for grace and pray for correction in the privacy of our walks.

excellent, this is a post i can relate to. we all should

 

[patrick jane]

NO yezbutts or yahbutts!



Sure...



I do not know your belief regarding reincarnation...

You may recall Paul saying he would not eat meat forever if it stumbled his weaker brothers for whom Christ died... And he wrote that we are to obey those appointed over us... But these are only instructions for those desiring union with God...



What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?

Arsenios

i don't know who you it was asking about discussing ideas. sometimes, i forget to pay attention to the forum and ECT, religion, theology, etc. but i'm sure there places here to talk fiction with each other - atrol:

 

[chrysostom]

It's serious as errors go. I said it. That's not insinuation. And I was equally clear about what I see as salvific.

it is salvific
if
it is serious

you were equally clear but not clear about salvific
so
why is belief in reincarnation a serious problem?

 

[chrysostom]

do you think my salvation will depend on my belief regarding reincarnation?

I do not know your belief regarding reincarnation...

that is not an answer to my question
answer the question

say so
if
you don't understand the question

 

[Lon]

why is belief in reincarnation a serious problem?

It might be different between a Catholic and a Protestant, but here goes:

The Sadducees and Pharisees were at odds on the resurrection of the dead. Jesus said the Bible shows that God "IS" Lord of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Scripture gives clear indication of things and is explicit in others and it is a 'serious' error to ignore clear teachings of scripture. Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.

And here is where it gets Salvific and why:

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

"Once" is essential to the passage and incredibly emphatic concerning Christ so must be emphatic concerning man by virtue of the essential comparison. Hebrews makes it more emphatic that it has to be only once, when it describes Him 'coming' a second time, "not to deal with sin." That is why Hebrews 4:6 is so emphatic about the anathema of any other sacrificial system, save Christ alone (only/once).

Question: "Can I believe in reincarnation, without doing damage to this clear scripture presentation and more importantly, the presentation of saving grace?"

A person can make mistakes and still be within the trusting Grace of God. "Can" is always something, somebody wants to investigate for themselves, when they diverge, especially on potentially salvific matters.

Respectfully,

-Lon

 

[chrysostom]

Scripture gives clear indication of things and is explicit in others and it is a 'serious' error to ignore clear teachings of scripture.

is this clear?

Revelation 20 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Matthew 24:14 (KJV)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Matthew 24:34 (KJV)

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[chrysostom]

Question: "Can I believe in reincarnation, without doing damage to this clear scripture presentation and more importantly, the presentation of saving grace?"

yes because scripture is not clear

can you explain how those who have not heard the gospel are saved?

 

[Lon]

yes because scripture is not clear

can you explain how those who have not heard the gospel are saved?

I'm not sure anyone answers this definitively. As a Calvinist, it is answered from the perspective of God's decrees and sovereignty. An illustration was given of a tribal chief who had gone out into creation. He had served gods, and appeased some, but thought, looking at the beauty around him, that there must be a good God who created it. He prayed to know Him and not long after a missionary came to his village. It is anecdotal, but perhaps provides appreciations, regardless of perspective.

With the internet, I believe the number of those who have not heard is greatly diminishing. Radio too, has reached into many places bibles are not allowed. As I've been reading back over Romans, this passage came to mind:

Rom 2:10 But He will give glory, honor and peace to every man who works good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of faces with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law.
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.