Ecumenicist
New member
Thanx AMR for capturing the essence of this.
Once again, God chose to manifest God's self in that place at that time. God can be (and is)
all present without necessarily being manifest.
Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
- Status
Thanx AMR for capturing the essence of this.
Once again, God chose to manifest God's self in that place at that time. God can be (and is)
all present without necessarily being manifest.
As opposed to taking a song and treating it with wooden literalism........
pot, kettle, black
Ecumenicist
New member
God's nature cannot be split between loving and wrathful. Its human interpretation that
changes, not God. God's Righteous, Loving nature appears as wrath to those who would
reject His healing Grace. And to those who reject God's healing Grace, the process of purification
to which Revelation refers is torture. But the torture is only eternal in that after passing through
the fire, one never returns, but is either consumed completely (the second and final death,)
or emerges purifed in paradise. For the lake of fire is the same flaming sword which
seperates sinful humanity from paradise. And the silver is purified, the wheat is seperated
from the chaff, the good fish from teh bad, and the wheat from the tares. Each metaphore
refers to a single person's heart, for who is completely good or completely evil?
In the purification, in the end, as painful as it is for many people, God purifies and removes
the pain and anguish an sin from everyone. God's loving promise extended through Christ
is fulfilled. And those who accept Christ into their hearts, and surrender all that they are to
God through Christ, are purifed, such that passing through the gate is not painful, but
welcoming.
The problem is that some people are saying Jesus died, but Christ did not.:dizzy:
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Yes, you are correct and I should have been more clear. I appreciate the correction for we cannot separate any of the attributes of God, for the inhere one another. :thumb:
PKevman
New member
godrulz said:
You're full of malarkey man. Any views I hold at least are influenced only by the Word of God. I know many others here that say the same thing. I'm honestly tired of you saying junk like this. I'd appreciate if you wouldn't. When you make sweeping remarks like this they seriously damage your credibility because you aren't actually debating or discussing anything, just making a silly generalization.
PKevman
New member
You just agreed and confirmed DaveMiller's false Universalist views on purification. Congratulations. I've always said all along that Universalism is a good hyper-Calvinist position anyway.
Mystery
New member
That's right PK.
The only difference between Universalism and Calvinism is the L in TULIP.
PKevman
New member
AskMrReligion said:
Ok let's take this really slow. If God "fills ALL of His creation with His presence" then He is also FILLING your toilet and mine, and He's also FILLING Godless unbelievers with His presence. These views are so unBiblical that it doesn't matter WHAT verses you stretch and wrench out of context to try to defend them.
Be that as it may, let's see the verses you listed to support your views that God is present in toilets and in places where He doesn't want to be:
You said He is "in all", and you quoted Ephesians 4:6
WHOOPS! Major problem AMR! Ephesians 4 is addressed to BELIEVERS in the BODY OF CHRIST! Paul says in verse #1 that he beseeches them "to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called"
And in verse #4: There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
And in verses 5-6:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
When Paul says God is "In you all" he is referring to believers in the ONE BODY, who are filled by the ONE SPIRIT, and have been baptized by the ONE BAPTISM. It is NOT water baptism, it's the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!
Calvinism stretches verses out of context to support UnBiblical ideas. This can be proven by examining some of the texts you give. I'll respond the rest of your post in my next post. Stay tuned.......
PKevman
New member
AskMrReligion said:
AMEN! Open Theists don't deny this. Where's the support for Calvinism?
AskMrReligion said:
AMEN! Open Theists don't deny this. Where's the support for Calvinism?
AskMrReligion said:
Who denies that God is eternal? Where's the support for Calvinism?
AskMrReligion said:
1 Kings 8:27:
27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built!
AMEN! Where's the support for Calvinism? :idunno:
AskMrReligion said:
WHOOPS! Hold up. You know what this reminds me of? It reminds of reading Jehovah's Witnesses literature, where they have a bunch of Bible verses following their unGodly ideas, and fool people into thinking their views are Biblical just because they are too doggone LAZY to investigate the verses for themselves!
BOTH of the verses you quote above have to deal with the fact that nobody can hide themselves from God. We have not denied that in the least. Once again you have failed to prove OMNI or ALL presence. You're reading into those verses your preconceived notion of Omnipresence. That's all you're doing.
In order to make it easy for those reading to follow, I will continue dealing with all of the verses you posted in separate posts. Unlike you, I will not string together long and unreadable posts that nobody would care to read.
PKevman
New member
AskMrReligion said:
Hebrews 4:13 is a perfect example of this Scripture twisting. It says:
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
AMEN! God knows whatever He chooses to know whenever He chooses to know it. Where's the support for Calvinism? :idunno:
2 Chronicles 16:9
9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him. In this you have done foolishly; therefore from now on you shall have wars.”
AMEN! No Open Theist denies this truth! It still does not support yours, namely that God has no choice about what He knows or what He sees! The truth is that God is capable of seeing everything that He wants to see whenever He wants to see it! Where's the support for Calvinism in this verse? :idunno:
Is. 44:7-8 simply affirms there is no God like our God. It in no way affirms the wacky position of Omniscience, that God has no choice in what He knows! You cannot see the truth until you remove your preconceived notions! In fact, I read through every single one of these verses, and not a single one of them contains support for the Calvinist view of God that God is not free to know what He chooses to know!
AskMrReligion said:
Open Theists do not deny that God has the power to do whatever He wants to do. The only thing we say is that "Omni" or "All" power is not entirely Biblical because God delegated SOME power and authority to His creatures. BEFORE God created any creatures He was the ONLY power there was, so in that sense and at that time Omnipotence as it has been defined by Calvinism was probably true.
Some of God's creatures are even CALLED "Powers" and "Authorities" for crying out loud! (ephesians 6)
God gave some power to His creatures, but He has more power than all of creation combined, and could wipe it all out at a moment's notice, so it's not entirely true to say that God has ALL power and that ONLY God has power, which is what ALL power actually means if you stop to think about it! :think:
Be that as it may, I've once again taken the time to read through all of your verses, and I don't see the support for Calvinism in there anywhere. :idunno:
The fact that God can do whatever He wants to do whenever He wants to do it is supported though.
PKevman
New member
AskMrReligion said:
What is your point here? I see nothing in any of these verses that we would deny! Was it just more a part of your stringing a bunch of verses together in one post? Where's the support for Calvinism?
At this point I will stop responding because my answers are the same. I've read through every single verse you've supplied, and fail to see the support for Calvinism or the idea that God has no control over His faculties anywhere in them. It just doesn't exist AMR!
Good luck in your continued attempt to prove that someone other than God the Son died on the cross. You will always fail in that endeavor, and that is why this thread has gone so far off track. :think:
Excellent end to a fascinating thread. Thanks PK for putting a cap on this one. :up:
- Status