Like all MADists, you try to build your belief system from silence.
Here is the scripture:
(John 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
ECT Which Gospel Preached During the Tribulation Period?
- Thread starter notreligus
- Start date
Like all MADists, you try to build your belief system from silence.
Here is the scripture:
(John 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Before Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Bullinger, Ryrie, Anderson, and Stam there was no such thing as MAD.
Last I checked, Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Bullinger, Ryrie, Anderson, and Stam were men.
Hence, “man made belief system.”
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Predestination
Predestination
Another word that is vital to Preaching the Kingdom of God, emphasis on God's Sovereignty is the word predestination. Websters defines:
The decree of God by which He has, from all eternity unchangeably, appointed or determined whatever comes to pass. It is used particularly to denote the preordaining of men to everlasting happiness or misery, and is part of the unchangeable plan of the Divine Government: in other words, the unchangeable purpose of an unchangeable God.
Now, here is Gospel preaching of the Kingdom with this word:
Rom 8:
29For whom he did foreknow[Choose], he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
eph 1:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Being predestinated according to the working after the counsel of His own will !
Remember Paul says that in His Gospel of Grace preaching and Kingdom of God, that He shunned not to declare all what ?
acts 20:
25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
26Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
So preaching the Kingdom of God is related to preaching all the counsel of God, which eph 1 11 is emphasis of.
Its also interesting to note, that in acts 20 Paul was speaking to the elders of Ephesus, to whom the letter to the Ephesians was written acts 20:
17And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
So this confirms that eph 1 is part of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Paul preached previously to them at Ephesus, to include the all the counsel of God, which predestination was a topic, vs 5, 11.
So Faithful Gospel Preaching of the Kingdom during the Great Tribulation will emphasis Gods predestination.
Predestination
Another word that is vital to Preaching the Kingdom of God, emphasis on God's Sovereignty is the word predestination. Websters defines:
The decree of God by which He has, from all eternity unchangeably, appointed or determined whatever comes to pass. It is used particularly to denote the preordaining of men to everlasting happiness or misery, and is part of the unchangeable plan of the Divine Government: in other words, the unchangeable purpose of an unchangeable God.
Now, here is Gospel preaching of the Kingdom with this word:
Rom 8:
29For whom he did foreknow[Choose], he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
eph 1:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Being predestinated according to the working after the counsel of His own will !
Remember Paul says that in His Gospel of Grace preaching and Kingdom of God, that He shunned not to declare all what ?
acts 20:
25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
26Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
So preaching the Kingdom of God is related to preaching all the counsel of God, which eph 1 11 is emphasis of.
Its also interesting to note, that in acts 20 Paul was speaking to the elders of Ephesus, to whom the letter to the Ephesians was written acts 20:
17And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
So this confirms that eph 1 is part of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Paul preached previously to them at Ephesus, to include the all the counsel of God, which predestination was a topic, vs 5, 11.
So Faithful Gospel Preaching of the Kingdom during the Great Tribulation will emphasis Gods predestination.
God is a British Israelist?
I know that you know that I do not advocate British Israelism.
Yet you repeatedly like to say that I am a British Israelite when it is you that has way more in common with British Israelism than I do.
You, like the British Israelites, believe that one day Jesus is going to rule planet earth from a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. You, like them believe there is going to be animal sacrifices there, along with feasts and holidays such as the Feast of Tabernacles, and of course the Mosaic law will be in place.
I don’t believe any of this stuff, yet you call me the British Israelite.
The only difference between you and the British Israelites is that you think that you are the one who is going to be ruling with Jesus over the Jews from the third temple, while the British Israelites think that they are going to be the ones ruling with Jesus over the Christians.
So, every time you call me a British Israelite, you are not only purposely misrepresenting me, but there is great irony when you do it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If you will examine the Scriptures you will see that Paul was the first to preach the "gospel of grace," a gospel that is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross--that He died for our sins.
We can see a complete sermon by Peter on the day of Pentecost from Acts 2:14 until Acts 2:36. Included in that sermon was a gospel, and those who believed that gospel were saved. But that sermon will be searched in vain for any mention of the "purpose" of the Cross. There is no mention of the grace of God either.
The "gospel of grace" was not preached by Peter on ther day of Pentecost and there is no evidence that anyone preached that gospel before Paul.
That is the way whereby we can understand the beginning of the present dispensation of grace. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:
"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).
"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).
"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibiblity:
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
It is important to understand when the present dispensation began, and an examination of the Scriptures reveal that it did not start until sometimes after Paul was converted.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
God ordained us to be this way.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Nang lectures dispensationalists but she doesn't even understand the most basic fact of salvation.
According to her we do not believe to get saved!
Evidently she believes that the Philippian jailer was given the wrong answer when he asked what he must do to be saved:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
This is all beyond Nang's ability to understand.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).
STP neg rep: 'You read protevangelium in a commentary'.
So? Actually, I heard it verbally somewhere and I googled it for the spelling. I understand the concept. Now you have read something new to you in a post on TOL. Does that make you a bad person or the word false?
You see and hear things that you absorb (you were not omniscient at birth) and then write them. Hypocrite. You look up archaic English words to expand your vocabulary. You will not find 'trinity', etc. in the Bible. If you read something about it somewhere, does that make you a bad person or the concept false?
So, Jesus died and rose from the dead and you think even after His spending time with them they still didn't understand the truth?
Do you mean to say that God's grace was not for these people who received the good news?
? I'm still not following you. What is this "gospel of grace" and where do you find that phrase in scripture?
No problem with this... but what are you trying to say with it? It sounds like you have an ax to grind.
Isn't this talking about God using Paul?!
? And? How does this take away from what Phillip, Peter, and James and the rest communicated? Did you read the verses I provided about God granting repentance to Jew and Gentile alike? Even Jew without Paul. Is this not God's grace??
Yes, the grace of God being communicated. Not a "different" gospel of grace.
In other words Paul didn't receive grace himself but he preached it???
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You cannot make sense of what the Bible says either.
If there is only one post-Cross gospel then why do we not see the "gospel of grace" preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost?
We can see a complete sermon by Peter on the day of Pentecost from Acts 2:14 until Acts 2:36. Included in that sermon was a gospel, and those who believed that gospel were saved. But that sermon will be searched in vain for any mention of the "purpose" of the Cross. There is no mention of the grace of God either.
Even the Acts 2 people understood exactly what Peter was preaching and it was not the "gospel of grace." Charles Ryrie says that the theme of Peter's sermon was proving that the Lord Jesus is Israel's Christ or Messiah:
"To us today it does not mean much to say that Jesus is Christ or Messiah. To a Jew of that day it was an assertion which required convincing proof, and it was the theme of Peter's sermon. Peter's proof is built along very simple lines. First he paints a picture of the Messiah from the Old Testament Scriptures. Then from contemporary facts he presents a picture of Jesus of Nazareth. Finally, he superimposes these two pictures on each other to prove conclusively that Jesus is Messiah" [emphasis added] (Ryrie, "The Significance of Passover," Bibliotheca Sacra, Oct. 1955, Vol.112, # 448, p.335).
However, this means nothing to you because you little bitty brain cannot grasp the fact that the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is NOT the same "good news" that Christ died for our sins.
So there is no wonder that you say that you cannot make sense of my MAD view. You refuse to use what little brain power that you do have.
According to STP, a believer should not read anything other than a KJV to "Study"
** Unless of course it's a book or commentary that is pro-MAD; like "Modern Church Where Tradition Trumps Truth".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I say that there is absolutely no evidence that Peter preached the "gospel of grace" to anyone on the day of Pentecost.
No, I am not saying that. Men have been saved by grace since the beginning of time but the "gospel of grace," which is centered on the fact that Christ died for our sins, was not preached earlier.
The Twelve were preaching a gospel while the Lord still walked the earth (Lk.9:6) but yet at that time they did not even know that He was to die (Lk.18:31-34).
So it is evident that they were not preaching a gospel that is centered on the fact that "Christ died for our sins." Yet those who belived during that time were saved by the grace of God.
I just quoted a verse that contains that phrase but for some reason you just overlooked it. Here it is again:
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
The "gospel of grace" is a gospel where the subject is "grace," just as the subject of the "gospel of the kingdom" is the kingdom.
Here Paul speaks of preaching that gospel and the result was that those who heard and believed it "knew the grace of God in truth" (Col.1:5-6).
I never said anything that even hints that I believe that.
Now I will ask you a question. The Apostle Paul said that he received the gospel which he preached to the churches in Galatia directly from the Lord Jesus (Gal.1:12).
Please tell me when you believe that Paul received that revelation.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Use your search function and find my exact quote....share it with the gang.
Peter and Paul called people to faith in Christ. We do the same thing (grace/faith vs works). I don't have people master Pauline theology in Romans in order for them to be saved. Acts 2 teaches the death and resurrection of Christ in addition to His identity (important for Jewish audience). Paul did not always expand on the details of the significance of His death. People who heard that Jesus is God, Messiah, Lord, Savior and that He is also Lamb of God who died for sin can be saved through simple faith in Him ('follow me'; Jn. 3:16; Jn. 1:12; Rom. 10:9-10).
Peter and Paul did not divorce the person and work of Christ. They did not always give detailed theological instruction (comes after vs before conversion), but called people to repent and trust in Jesus and what He had done. It is in Acts 2 and later in Acts. Jesus even taught about His identity, death, and resurrection before the actual work was completed (Jn. 1-2). The full Pauline fleshing out of this reality was not a condition of salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not by theological perfection.
The early church was in transition and growing in understanding under the Spirit. They had misconceptions, immature beliefs, doctrinal controversies, etc., but they knew the simplicity of the gospel by the time Christ died and rose again. Peter knew about the death and resurrection and preached this in Acts 2. What he did not fully understand was the mystery of the church and Jew and Gentile being one in Christ. He may never have understood exhaustively all soteriological truth, but He knew enough to call people to repent and trust the risen Christ, no different than Paul did (Paul expands the understanding and the gospel to the Gentiles, but he is not the first one to preach our gospel). The gospel is rooted in the cross and Christ, not in Pauline theology that came later to fill in the details.
Peter and Paul did not divorce the person and work of Christ. They did not always give detailed theological instruction (comes after vs before conversion), but called people to repent and trust in Jesus and what He had done. It is in Acts 2 and later in Acts. Jesus even taught about His identity, death, and resurrection before the actual work was completed (Jn. 1-2). The full Pauline fleshing out of this reality was not a condition of salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not by theological perfection.
The early church was in transition and growing in understanding under the Spirit. They had misconceptions, immature beliefs, doctrinal controversies, etc., but they knew the simplicity of the gospel by the time Christ died and rose again. Peter knew about the death and resurrection and preached this in Acts 2. What he did not fully understand was the mystery of the church and Jew and Gentile being one in Christ. He may never have understood exhaustively all soteriological truth, but He knew enough to call people to repent and trust the risen Christ, no different than Paul did (Paul expands the understanding and the gospel to the Gentiles, but he is not the first one to preach our gospel). The gospel is rooted in the cross and Christ, not in Pauline theology that came later to fill in the details.
Here is your exact quote:
As the "gang" can see, you are making fun of me for suggesting that sources other than the KJV are needed to understand what is in the KJV.
The two examples I gave were Hanukkah & Epimenides.
Without other sources there is no way anyone could learn where Hanukkah came from in John 10:22 by just using a KJV.
Without other sources there is no way anyone could know who Paul was quoting when Paul said "All Cretans are liars" in Titus 1:12 with only a KJV.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you just ignore what I said about Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost because in that sermon Peter said nothing about the finished work of the Lord Jesus upon the Cross.
You are not interested in an intelligent discussion on this issue because in order to do that you would actually have to address issues to which you have no answer.
So instead you make a statement that is obviously not true. In the sermon that I mentioned earlier where did Peter ever tell others to "trust in Jesus and what He had done"?
Where? Tell me! Otherwise just admit that you will not hesitate to just make up things if it suits your purposes.
You prove that you really have no understanding about this subject and you are not capable of learning.
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1. I did not ask that. Is yours "God made?"
2. What a mess our hero is. My evidence? His scribble. The rabbi "argues" that truth becomes truth when people discover it.
Thanks for reporting in. Keep posting. You make it easy for the babes to see the difference between an honest member of the BOC, a bible believer, who surveys, studies, and believes the book, and a dishonest skeptic, you, who rejects the book, caught up in the sewer of humanist "reasoning," man worship, and sophistry.
Quite a contrast. Carry on, and thanks for the life saver.