so gramma is about 30
What is your answer to "The Race Problem"?
- Thread starter Alate_One
- Start date
so gramma is about 30
Most of that doesn't seem to directly answer the proposed problem of a disproportionate amount of black people being jailed though. :idunno: You are basically saying let's change the laws so what they are doing isn't a crime anymore.
Let's say the laws don't change. What would you do? Stop focusing so much on low-income city neighborhoods even though there seems to be a high concentration of offenses there? Start focusing more on suburbs with more white residents?
To be clear, I actually do agree with most of what you say here. But it doesn't seem to directly address what you think the police are doing wrong right now and what they could change to be more fair.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
you're right
possession, use, or selling of illegal drugs should carry a mandatory death sentence, swiftly executed
for whites as well as blacks
asians too
(see singapore's misuse of drugs act)
PureX
Well-known member
Most don't believe this because they have been taught from birth that they are outcasts. They have experienced nothing else. Because our system IS rigged in favor of wealthy white men, and everyone knows it. Being poor and black and male puts you WAY on the outside, looking in.
You think because the wealthy white men who run everything allow a very few, very determined young black men through the gauntlet of cultural and economic discrimination, that somehow this means they can all get through. But the result is proof that this is just not true. It's just a lie the wealthy white men tell themselves so they can pretend they have not completely rigged the system in their own favor, and that other people are suffering because of it.
I wanted to respond to this also.
I can think of a couple reasons why drug activity out in the open would be punished more harshly. It's basically the same reasoning that areas around schools carry more severe penalties. 1) violence sometimes comes with drug deals and I'd rather that violence be kept in a home rather than on the streets where there is more potential collateral damage. 2) it's easier for kids to find it. Perhaps there is a kid who would consider getting into drugs but isn't sure where to do it or who to ask. But then they see something. That's their open door. Of course, if a kid wants it bad enough he'll find a way, but there might be some kids on the fence that need an easy path and seeing something out on the streets could make it easier.
Excellent response!
PureX
Well-known member
You are living in a fantasy vision of drug culture. Every kid in every inner-city neighborhood knows exactly where the drugs are being sold, and exactly who is selling them. If they want to sell drugs, all they have to do is say so.
Any kid in a white, well-to-do neighborhood will likewise know who is selling drugs if they want to buy them. And who to go to for a supply if they want to sell them. All they have to do is ask around. There are no "kids on the fence". No one is forcing them to buy or sell drugs. No one is coercing them, except a culture that ignores the poor and ethnic kids economically. Driving them to sell drugs if they want any money, or want to own any of the things that the wealthy white advertising world tells them they must have to be 'acceptable'.
The wealthy white advertiser's kids don't need to sell drugs to get the money to buy those same things, because they already have them. So really, the poor kids can be somewhat excused for selling drugs, as they have few other options. While the wealthy white kids don't have any excuse for it, but their own greed and disregard for a society's laws that have been designed to give them every advantage. It could be argued that they are the true criminals.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
I could argue that no matter the scenario, no matter the criteria, no matter the motive, your racism will rear it's ugly head and only find a negative in regard to white people. So why should I try to get along with you? You are not open to anything but your own biases.
You are a self proclaimed victim cry-baby.
I'm glad you know everything about everyone. Thanks for setting me straight PureX.
I never meant to say that there are lots of kids who are on the fence that are buying drugs because they see something happening on a street corner. However, if I can choose between having drug activity on the streets or in a house I'll take it in a house every time.
Hey wait ! That's me !!!
PureX
Well-known member
If you cannot see that the United States of America was created by wealthy white men, has always been run by wealthy white men, according to laws that hugely favor the desires and agendas of those wealthy white men, than you are living with your eyes and mind completely closed.
Who do you think decides what news reports you will see on your TV every day of your life? Who do you think is producing every advertisement message shoved in your face every time you look at a magazine, news paper, or TV show? Who do you think is sitting in the Congress and the Senate writing the laws that we all then have to live by, and that effect our lives in countless ways? And who do you think they are writing those laws to serve and protect, if not their wealthy white campaign donors, and their wealthy white lobbyists, who pay them handsomely for their "special consideration"? Who do you think decides how the police will patrol their communities? And how they will apportion their officers and their time? What crimes they will focus on?
Wealthy white men, or the paid puppets of wealthy white men. Every time. All the time. And it has always been that way, and it will remain that way because they are going to see to it that it does. Just as they have always seen to it.
What part of this don't you understand? What part of what I'm writing don't you see going on all around you? Please tell me how I'm wrong.
1. See the italicized: this is just another instance of you social liberals denying personal responsibility. You know what leads criminals into worse crimes? Their own free choices.
2. You insist on using words like "racialized." Saying that these actions are "racialized," or that there is a "race problem," or that there are "unintentionally racist actions"...none of that is particularly helpful to me.
Like social liberals in general (in fact, like most people in general), you're insisting on slapping a label on things and speaking against the label. By using words like "racialized," and "race problem" and "unintentionally racist actions," you are absolving yourself of any responsibility to address the individual "problems" themselvs. Instead, you can just hide behind a label: "The system is racist!"
Talk to me about specific actions, laws, etc. that you think are "racist," and explain to me what you mean by "racist" and why the actions, laws, etc. are "racist."
The problem that we are having, Alate_One, and I don't mean just you and me, I mean all of you social liberals, on the one hand, and reasonable people like me, on the other hand, is that you are starting off presupposing that there is a massive problem that needs to be fixed, and you are starting off with a presupposed view, a presupposed picture of what that problem is, with a presupposed vocabulary of how to describe it.
You're letting a social liberal vocabulary and social liberal talking points do your thinking for you.
Your use of the word "racist" and "racialized" is practically no different from the conservative cry of "socialist!" It's equally cliche, equally pervasive and equally meaningless.
If you wish to debate the matter with me, speak to me in your own words and from one human being to another. Talking to a playbook, to a pre-recorded message, (whether of the conservative or liberal variety) gets unbelievably tiring.
Yes, I think that one is worse than the other. I think that one demonstrates a greater disregard for the law and for public safety and order, and indicates, in general, a worse character. The fact that the criminal is selling drugs on the streets, it seems to me, adds all sorts of defects to his crime.
1. Not an answer to what I said. What I asked was: "Short of changing the law."
2. Even if the law were changed, there would still, by your own admission, be a disparity, since black drug dealers (as opposed to drug users) are, by your own admission, much easier for the average policeman to spot and catch.
3. The fact that there is a disparate impact is utterly irrelevent from the viewpoint of criminal justice. Either the act in question constitutes an offense to public order, safety, justice, etc., or else, it doesn't. If it does, and the legislators decide to criminalize it, then the fact that enforcement has a disparate impact on one community as opposed to another doesn't really matter.
You keep talking about a disparity. I'm looking at it from the other way around. Show me a guilty convict who you think should be on the streets right now. Show me a guilty prisoner who you think isn't a threat to public order, safety, etc. Show me a guilty prisoner, and explain to me how society would not be worse off if he were a free man.
You can't? Then quit your complaining. He belongs in prison, and I don't care about the racial disparity, about the consequences, etc. All that matters to me is that A is guilty, A is a threat to public safety and order, and that the streets are safer because A is not free to roam them.
A meth addict in prison can't rob me. True story, bro.
4. You seem to be under the impression that drug crimes are victimless and should not constitute criminal acts. With the exception of "harmless" drugs like marijuana, I vehemently disagree. How much money do you think it takes to sustain a meth addiction? What socio-economic demographic do you think has the largest proportion of meth addicts? How do you suppose they fund these addictions?
Think about that for a while and come back to me, and then explain to me why you don't think that drug addicts are criminals who should be in prison.
And in addition to that, I'll tell you that even aside from the grave harm that these drugs work on society in general, both to the user and society in general, I'll tell you that every single drug addict, insofar as he is purchasing drugs, is funding criminals and criminal activity. To my mind, that itself constitutes a criminal act.
You don't think that it should be a crime to purchase cocaine? Tell that to all of the people who been victimized by cocaine producers and sellers. They just might disagree with you.
You think it's a problem. I don't. I think that those are just the facts, and if a racial disparity results, then so what? :idunno:
1. Why should less time be spend looking for drug dealing? What you're saying is that police shouldn't spend so much of their time enforcing the law. Well, I disagree.
2. You are presupposing that police are looking for drug dealing at the expense of investigating other crimes. I have no reason to think that this is true.
3. With respect to the "drugs as a medical problem," see above.
Sounds good.
I don't see this as an either/or.
I see no reason to think that this is even necessary in the first place. In order for you to tell me that there needs to be police reform, you must want me to believe that the current system is defective. I await evidence for this.
I vehemently disagree with this, because I can just tell you right off hand what I can see resulting from it:
1. Increased crime in places that used to be relatively safe.
2. Decreased property values in those places.
What you're suggesting is grossly unfair to current residents in the "better neighborhoods."
Not to mention that this is awefully vague. What does "better neighborhoods" mean? What would this involve?
There is no need to, nor should there be efforts to, relocate people. What should be done is reform of currently existing lower income, high crime communities.
I am not entirely sure what this means. Explain more?
Again, I'm not entirely sure what you are implying by the bolded. Speak to me a bit more concretely and less vaguely.
Because they are unwilling to bend the knee and worship the only ONE who can fix anything.
Kids are forced into it all the time by gangs. Where have you been?
You keep going on about how criminals should be treated, and pay no attention on how to keep people from turning into criminals.
You really don't care, as long as there as Justice?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
raising them up in a God fearing family, with a mother and a father would be a good start
You are in error in processing. You are blaming others for the failures of failures! Since any number of people have risen above adversity it means that it can be done.
You are allowing yourself and others to be labeled by your ideas about "rich white men"?
You know why good teachers don't wish to teach in ghetto schools? They are afraid of the behavior of some of the students. Teachers are robbed, raped and beaten. They have their tires slashed, windows broken and families threatened.
This is because of the behavior of some students. These students not only intimidate the teachers but they also intimidate other students who might wish to learn.
An individual is accountable for his/her word and deeds. No whining, no blaming of others. Life is not easy for most of us yet we plug along and do our best.
You are who you say you are!