ECT What is the clearest understanding Paul attempts to convey . . . .

theophilus

theophilus

Well-known member
A. I have been crucified with Christ~

Luke 9:23-24 - And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

http://www.acts17-11.com/death.html

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."—Romans 6:3-4.

Baptism sets forth the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and our participation therein. Its teaching is twofold. First, think of our representative union with Christ, so that when he died and was buried it was on our behalf, and we were thus buried with him. We declare in baptism that we believe in the death of Jesus, and desire to partake in all the merit of it. But there is a second equally important matter and that is our realized union with Christ which is set forth in baptism, not so much as a doctrine of our creed as a matter of our experience. There is a manner of dying, of being buried, of rising, and of living in Christ which must be displayed in each one of us if we are indeed members of the body of Christ.
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- Spurgeon, http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1627.htm

B. It is no longer I who live but Christ Who lives in me~~

Rom. 6:5-11, 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Well, then, it seems that as Christ was, so we also are dead. We are dead to sin because sin can no more condemn us. All the sins which God's people have ever committed dare not accuse, much less can they condemn those for whom Jesus died. Sin can curse an unbeliever, but it has no power so much as to mutter half a curse against a man in Christ. I cannot claim a debt of a dead debtor, and although I be a debtor to the law, yet since I am dead, the law cannot claim anything of me, nor can sin inflict any punishment upon me. He that is dead, as says the preceding verse, is freed from sin; being dead to sin we are free from all its jurisdiction; we fear not its curse; we defy its power.
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Spurgeon, http://www.romans45.org/spurgeon/sermons/0503.htm

C. and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God~

*me in Christ-Christ in me

2 Corinthians 5:17
Galatians 3:26
1 Corinthians 12:27
1 Corinthians 6:17
2 Peter 1:4
Ephesians 2:6
2 Corinthians 2:15
Romans 8:1-39
John 15:1-5
2 Corinthians 1:21
Colossians 2:10
Colossians 3:1-4
Galatians 5:5,6

D. Who loved me and gave Himself for me~

Rom. 5:6-11
 
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theophilus said:
A. I have been crucified with Christ~

Luke 9:23-24 - And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

http://www.acts17-11.com/death.html

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."—Romans 6:3-4.

- Spurgeon, http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1627.htm

B. It is no longer I who live but Christ Who lives in me~~

Rom. 6:5-11, 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Spurgeon, http://www.romans45.org/spurgeon/sermons/0503.htm

C. and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God~

*me in Christ-Christ in me

2 Corinthians 5:17
Galatians 3:26
1 Corinthians 12:27
1 Corinthians 6:17
2 Peter 1:4
Ephesians 2:6
2 Corinthians 2:15
Romans 8:1-39
John 15:1-5
2 Corinthians 1:21
Colossians 2:10
Colossians 3:1-4
Galatians 5:5,6

D. Who loved me and gave Himself for me~

Rom. 5:6-11
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Do you see any difference when reading it in the KJV?
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Paul is explaining it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.

Peter explained, "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17 NKJV)

Peter and Paul both died once through the symbolic death, burial, and resurrection of Christ represented by water baptism to begin a new life with Christ.
 
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theophilus said:
"nevertheless"
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Lets compare them:

"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me"
Galatians 2:20 (ESV)

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
Galatians 2:20 (NASB)

Now the KJV:

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)


See any difference? Pay attention to the tiny prepositions.
 
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theophilus said:
"up"

Giving my life
Giving up my life

...just the ascent.
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How 'bout this:

". . . . the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." . . .Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
Paul is saying that he lived so intimately with God by Christ Jesus that there was no difference between the two. Living by His Faith is to be living by His Life. Jesus exemplified of this kind of life when He was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan. Paul 'wore' those 'shoes'.
 
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Cross Reference said:
How 'bout this:

". . . . the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." . . .Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
Paul is saying that he lived so intimately with God by Christ Jesus that there was no difference between the two. Living by His Faith is to be living by His Life. Jesus exemplified of this kind of life when He was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan. Paul is simply stating that he, 'wore' those 'shoes'.
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theophilus said:
I need a pair of those shoes.

Perfect faith.
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Yes. We all do. Actually we are striving to but some in a more accurate way to arrive at his destination. To me it is called striving to enter the kingdom. in this we might understand it to mean striving to understand how to live by the life of Jesus Christ; how to enter into His REST.
 
theophilus

theophilus

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I believe it is the same rest. And the ancient paths are still the paths of the Lord.

*This is one of my favorite verses in Scripture.
 
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theophilus said:
I believe it is the same rest. And the ancient paths are still the paths of the Lord.

*This is one of my favorite verses in Scripture.
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Yes. Where is the violation to anything in the scriptures. How can the accusation ever be we have trampled on a more correct exegesis by retaining the seriousness of the message held in that verse? What does it take to receive the insight of that which expresses sadness of the heart of the infinite God from Genesis to Revelations.
 
theophilus

theophilus

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Yes. Where is the violation to anything in the scriptures. How can the accusation ever be we have trampled on a more correct exegesis by retaining the seriousness of the message held in that verse? What does it take to receive the insight of that which expresses sadness of the heart of the infinite God from Genesis to Revelations.
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All of Love and Grace.

Thanks be to God for His indescribable Gift!
 
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theophilus said:
All of Love and Grace.

Thanks be to God for His indescribable Gift!
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Amen! Yes. We aren't worthy except for the shed blood of Jesus Christ in which God rejoices! Jesus never failed. Paul understood that he could explain all the whys and wherefores to us that we might be able to explain to others God's gracious, "indescribable Gift".. . . :thumb:
 
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