You are the game player, and playing Christian.
What is "Faith alone ?"
- Thread starter Faither
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You are the game player, and playing Christian.
Lon
Well-known member
Well, realize here that pisteuo, is 'faith' in the work of Christ. The 'work' is to create a new creation. (k'tisis). The Lord Jesus Christ told the woman at the well, that if she knew who He was, she would ask Him for Living Water. Similarly we cannot get a New Nature (ktisis) but must receive it. Ephesians 2:10
Luke 7:50 In this story, 'her faith' saved her, alone. Hebrews 11 is the faith chapter, where faith alone, is the reason is what is found in the Lord Jesus Christ Hebrews 11:39,40; 12:2
I would define Faith as "God enabled (because we have to have something to put faith in) Trust." Hebrews 11:1,6
I have Faith (trust) in God (noun that is describing the verb state). I trust (faith) the work of Christ to save me. In Ephesians 2:8,9 even that faith is given by God 'because' He did something first for me to put 'faith' in. IOW, Jesus Saves, I trust in Him. That is why faith alone saves: It is trusting wholly in Him for our Salvation. Hebrews 10:12 His work is a complete work.
Sort of. It is our trust, I agree, but even that is given because we have to have something to 'trust' in. Because the Lord Jesus Christ's work of salvation is a completed work, we trust in something that is complete. Continuing the thought: If it is a completed work, there is nothing you or I can add to it. Ephesians 2:8,9, & 10 tells us that faith alone saves, but that it is really Him that saves, we just put our trust/faith in that work. Because you nor I can do a thing to what He has accomplished, faith is all that exists for us.
Different theologians on TOL (MAD, Calvinist, Arminian, Catholic, Orthodox) will make commentary on this differently. Because of that, my answer here is going to be a bit long, and a bit on and off your concern, simply because everybody will answer this differently so I want to give 1) something that isn't just from my perspective as well as 2) then giving you my understanding such that it hopefully covers some needed bases for the answer. My answer may not suffice for this particular, so hopefully I point you to others that you can get more feedback concerning it in thread.
For me, I think scripture is the best way to do so, because it cuts through dialogue. Most theologians embrace faith alone. Some of us are monergists: We do nothing to become saved, and even our faith is given to us else we couldn't do it. Others, synergists, believe that 'we' must exercise faith on our own part. However, for me, even the synergist is a necessary monergist: 1 Corinthians 4:7 It has to do with Freewill discussion. We as people, have a sense of independence and 'self' as distinct. Most of us if not all of us have come to value our individuality. In it, there is a sense of desire to love and be loved. For me, the desire to 'love' usurps the need to 'be loved.' Job said, "even if God slay me, yet will I serve and praise Him." In a nutshell, I don't believe in synergism but I think it important that you see both sides and realize who you are talking to for this portion of your concern. We all will answer it differently. For me, all roads lead back to everything coming from God, and no independence. Colossians 1:16-18 and John 15:5 have me set that everything has to come from God. Faith and salvation included.
Yes, in a way. It is an existence of surrender, I agree. It isn't an 'effort' so much as a placement. Trust means He has the driver's wheel and we are with Him. Romans 6:4
Lon
Well-known member
You are mixing salvation with sanctification. She is simply disagreeing with you about which part saves, and which part is a result of being a new creation. She is saying that you can do nothing to be saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. If "HIS" work is incomplete, you cannot add to it, nor can I and we are still in our sins. Hebrews 11:39,40; 12:2 Perhaps look ▲at my post to Faither▲ above. -Lon
4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."
This is copied word for word out of the Greek dictionary. Are you rejecting this definition ?
I am sorry but I will not contributing to make simple faith in Christ complicated.
good day and blessings.
Why so spiteful, Meshak? Jesus loves.
Did Jesus ever say that to anyone, Meshak?
I thought you claimed to be a follower of Jesus?
Paul taught what our risen Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ told him to teach.
Denying those teachings is denying the teachings of Christ.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: That is missing the forest for the individual trees one happens to believe or be aligned to.
Hebrews 11:1 gives the definition of faith.
See Romans 11:5,6 Galatians 2:19-21; 3:15-25
The Lord Jesus Christ did not teach anything against Paul, and Paul did not preach against the Lord Jesus Christ's words.
That makes no sense.
I sent this to you on accident it was meant for Lon , my apology. I know your Faith is resting on your obedience .
Lon
Well-known member
Not at all. Are you making 'Faith' a work? Vines isn't intending to do that, but is rather saying faith is 'identity.' An exchanged life means something old is gone, something new has taken its place. The whole need for the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ is against the notion that 'we can do it.' Judaism was given to prove we cannot. They had many thousands of years to prove works was possible and they completely failed. That is why Meshak isn't really trusting in or listening to the Lord Jesus Christ. He constantly told the Pharisees and His disciples that they had to be born again. That He was going to die SO they could be born again.
Lon
Well-known member
Luke 7:50 John 3:6-8,18 John 8:12,31,32, 34-36 Paul gave the Lord Jesus Christ's words. You might as well cut Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John from your bible too. At least you recognize you have to cut the Apostle Paul from your Bible. Even JW's don't do that. It is just you. -Lon
Your dancing around pisteuo hoping not to get pressed into making a stand.
Do you agree that "pisteuo" is something "we do", and is "A personal surrendering of our lives to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender. "
Don't say you agree with it and change its means to suit your understanding.
"Identity" would be a noun , pisteuo is a verb , and act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidense.
Doesn't have a thing to do with obedient work to achieve Salvation . Its a response to that Grace provided for our Salvation.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono:
Yes, I surrender to trying to be godly on my own, for trying to follow Judaism well beyond my ability and 'yes' by faith I surrender to His work and Salvation because I have no righteousness on my own. Philippians 3:9
Will leave this up to clarifying remarks in the future.
A 're-' sponse means it is prompted and from God. Ephesians 2:9 "And this not of yourselves" Why? "So NO ONE may boast." NO ONE. It is a boast isn't it? Look ▲ It has to be▲ the way you are describing it. You are saying it as 'what I did, what you must do.' That indeed, is a boast. Don't you see it?
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Lon
Well-known member
Agree 100%
Why then did you say this:
My stance would be your stance wouldn't it? Maybe you didn't mean to be as overtly challenging and I apologize if I have not made my agreement clear. I agree with your statement: "It is Him. It has to be Him." In Him -Lon
I edited some of my previous comment. I think there is a need for further dialogue to make things clear. Trusting in Him AND is Words, AND His work is all the same thing. He did something. He said something. We trust in Him (1) as well as what He said(2) AND did(3).