Does this now bring the discussion to a pre Christ focus?
Excellent, this narrows the discussion and will allow it to take a hyper focus!
Or (1) is it a focus on the Patriarchal polygamy, (2) biblical misogynistic overtones, (3) or the fact that much of Christian society has difficulty reconciling the law with the fact that divorce can be a necessary part of life?
Would you explain this a little please?
(1) It is clear that only women were expressed as property (in the sense of marriage). Men were property as well, but this was as a slave. This means that woman were little better than slaves from the dogmatic, law quoting individual's perspective. The rectification of the existing polygamy in scripture from an individual that has a fire breathing, law based picture of God is terribly difficult. It brings up contradiction and error that decimates the continuity of scripture.
After all, it is either "God Breathed" and perfect, or simply another Theo-Philosophical collection of writings that is no different than any other of its kind.
The Patriarchal Polygamy that is so frequently present can be given many frames and justifications, but personally, I've never been in a relationship where I was like... So, Baby, have I got a deal for you! I'm going to bring several women into the household, arrange a stringent date night schedule, and I'll be rotating who I sleep with on a nightly basis... This relational approach seems a little void of the recognition that sexual union with an individual brings intimacy that removes the desire to 'share" a person's core affections.
Hence, though people seem to be terrified of your fantastic inquiry, it addresses some important scriptural issues that need to be addressed.
The very crowd that spouts the Law and says you can't "pick and choose" what scripture is saying, seem to be unknowingly picking and choosing what scripture is saying. They appear to lean on their own understanding and believe that humanity can be good by the law. (I'll quote a verse on this matter by the end of this book.)
(2) It is frequently observed that women were treated as property in the Old Testament, and many of Paul's statements appear to propagate these ideas.
It is such a prominent occurrence that misquotation of scripture could be used when a woman is discussing scripture. A woman who is disputing with a man over biblical discussion and taking a stance based on behavioral morality, backed by the Law of the books of Moses, could be easily dismissed with many of these scriptures as disobeying Paul's words that women should be silent.
I do not agree with this stance, but it is a secret humor that I think of every time I am confronted by a female that is eager to quote scriptural rules and back them with a self proclaimed desire to follow every one of them, while demanding that everyone else should too, or feel the wrath of the Living God!
... The fact of the matter is that there is much in scripture that seems to make woman less than a man. There are some excellent scriptures that negate the thrust of the misogynistic scriptures, but that brings up the point that something must be contradictory, or someone is misinterpreting something, or even more likely, the big picture is being traded in for a narrow focus on a tiny paint stroke of the picture.
(3) The law and divorce... Well, many church bodies (congregations or buildings with leaders), shun divorce as an un-scriptural solution. Jesus is cited, and women or men in horrible marriages are encouraged to "work it out". Many times, children suffer from this obtuse use of scripture.
Divorce sucks!!! But, sometimes, in life, we make decisions that turn out to be void of positive things. Sometimes, we suffer because we yoke to an individual that brings about constant pain in both of our lives. The merciful thing to do is to decide if things can be salvaged, or if the big-Div reset button needs to be pressed.
The following logic is if God genuinely wants us to be in miserable relationships and will turn us away from eternal life, because we will probably go on to find a more suitable partner, while in violation of Jesus's words about divorce and re-marriage.
You are correct in your understanding about marriage. Biblically, when a person has sex with another person, they are married before God... One Flesh...
I don't think people like to discuss this, because virginity before marriage is and has been for many years, a rare thing. But, for the people that are each other's firsts, I know many of those that met with marital ruin.
Relationships are not cut and dry, and failure occurs. Its like ripping two people in half, but sometimes, divorce is the only answer.
Unless people want to invoke stoning to allow one party to go on with the blessing of biblical, moral bragging rights, divorce has to be recognized as a result of imperfection!
Much of the "church" does not grasp this simple truth! It marginalizes single mothers and divorcing spouses. But just to bring a point home, I have had much "church" exposure at a leadership, observatory level, and to be truthful, the very people that quote the laws like a born Jew, are many times guilty of inter-church adultery on the genuine horizontal mamba level. In-fact, the very people that quote law and bring shame to people who are failing in some aspect of their life, tended to be the ones that had the darkest secrets that make a person go... "I wish I never knew that! Please let my mind forget what I have just learned about brother or sister law quoting so and so."
Now to be more specific, many elderly people who have tapered off on their nether region burning, beat people over the head with morality and what the rules in scripture say, but again, they tend to bull doze over their past, and act as if their newly found use of their brain (instead of thinking with other body parts), is because of their spiritual journey and nothing to do with their natural drop of testosterone or estrogen.
My point is that real life, in "nakedness" before God, is messy, imperfect and full of mistakes that force us to plee for mercy, instead of claim Law perfection, and master defender of God through holy living statues.
(I hope the soap box talk, mixed with the clearer expression of what I had said in nondescript verbiage, clarifies this.)
The Law of Moses has no mercy for realistic dealings with life. If it were followed to the letter, people would get stoned and women would be mere property. Slavery would be a natural part of life and society would crumble into barbarism that is best observed in middle eastern culture.
Indeed - as Paul said - that nobody would be justified through the law.
Indeed. Infact... Matthew 7:11 "Therefore, if you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in the heavens give good things to those asking Him!" ... Coupled with Mark 2:17 "On hearing this, Jesus told them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."" ... Speak volumes on this matter, but in jest towards many who ignore the carpenter, (not you Sonnet)... I will say; "Ehhhhh... But who cares what that Jesus guy has to say anyway! He's just the presence of the Author of time and existence, along with the thrust behind every word of scripture. I'll worship scripture and find salvation in rules, while telling everybody else how to be as good as me. That Jesus guy was just more of the same old testament rule giving, and that cross thing didn't do much for anyone, except the Holy by Moses and doctrine infused."
Perhaps I could be evil and ask for your reasonable social opinion on a matter.
Do you believe humanity functions better in polyamory or monogamy?
I agree. To be blunt, my deepest emotional, sexual and relational fulfillment comes from monogamy of the heart and body to one that feels the same about me.
Perfection does not exist on this side of the veil, but the truth is that romance is trampled the second infidelity comes into the picture. I have known people to come back from such things, but in my experience, it indeed cheapens the experience and brings sorrow and insincerity.
One other gem of a question, did God ever personally smite an individual for the specific act of Adultery?
Indeed! He never smited over adultery, and infact, an example is given where He had the opportunity. I laugh and laugh when the Law is given as the reason. Considering that the Mercy, not sacrifice verbiage is continuitive throughout the old and new testament, and the book of Hebrews and Galatians say volumes on the matter. It is interesting that people want to convey a God of their design that has no mercy, no understanding of the humanity He created, and above all, a God that is poised to smite anyone who disagrees with the majorities understanding of Him that agrees with their particular brand of Dogma.
It is interesting that He did smite people. To ignore what He did smite for and then assume what He "should" smite for is a little bit dangerous. I would go so far as to say that God's words in scripture, along with His actions, paint an entirely different picture of Him than many claim. If Calvary is observed and the kind of people that persecuted Jesus's ministry... well, oh man! The picture becomes way different than many would have many believe!
It may yet be the case that polygamy was a least worse, solicitous response to a female population imbalance.
This is an interesting point to ponder. I'm putting on my pondering cap.
............... One last thing... Thank you, Sonnet, for asking questions that cause thought, and force discussion. Thank you for not giving up on the pursuit of understanding. It is always refreshing.
