ECT We are not Israel, but the Body of Christ

ClimateSanity

New member
I think what he is saying is that being a gentile doesn't mean you have no DNA at all from Abraham.

As for the ten tribes, it is likely there are very few whose lineage of mother's all descended from one of the ten. If you want a concentration of them, look in Syria and Iraq and turkey and southeast Europe. I believe that is where the ten tribes migrated to before they totally mixed their DNA with the host populations. The askenazi Jews probably have amount of DNA from the ten tribes.
 

Danoh

New member
She has claimed to be a Gentile but has offered no proof whatsoever. Why does she think she is a Gentile?

If you know, help her out.

Help her out on this simple point; hunh? That's rich :chuckle:

Consider that if you were unable to get what I was talking about (because you obviously did not bother to study things out in the manner I suggested) then you can't very well expect to understand heir's understanding herself as being a Gentile.

This is why I sometimes assert that all this going back and forth in soundbytes is so often a waste.

Not only is someone like you going by where you look at things from; but you don't follow up on what is suggested you might consider studying out a thing from.

Instead, it is too often "spoon feed me your view so I can reject it becuase I'm not going to bother actually studying it out in the manner suggested."

Interplanner-itis is what that is. It is obvious the guy is at a point now where literally cannot help himself from planning to interject his ideas into the passages.
 

northwye

New member
"It is Mid Acts Dispensationalists and ONLY Mid Acts Dispensationalists who take both the Pauline Epistles and the whole rest of the New Testament to mean what it plainly states."

OK. How is taking New Testament texts to mean what they plainly state applied to Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29?

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?.........
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...........
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

What does Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29 mean? Does it mean something different to the followers of John Darby, C.I. Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer than it does to others who are not followers of these guys?
 

Danoh

New member
"It is Mid Acts Dispensationalists and ONLY Mid Acts Dispensationalists who take both the Pauline Epistles and the whole rest of the New Testament to mean what it plainly states."

OK. How is taking New Testament texts to mean what they plainly state applied to Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29?

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?.........
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...........
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

What does Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29 mean? Does it mean something different to the followers of John Darby, C.I. Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer than it does to others who are not followers of these guys?

Yes - it means something different not only to MADs, but something different depending on which claimants to MAD you ask - literally different :chuckle:

Such is the case BETWEEN adherents within ANY school of thought.

Only the less astute within ANY school of thought conclude that only ONE school of thought ALONE is ALWAYS right; and or that its adherents are either ALL on the same page, or NOT.

There is no winning with such less astute types.

And TOL is populated with such.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I laid out SOME principles having to do with how to approach studying out a thing in Scripture, and gave examples based on those principles.

Ok, I got all that but I fail to see how it connects to Abram's son of promise.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I think what he is saying is that being a gentile doesn't mean you have no DNA at all from Abraham.

Forget DNA, Israel was always a melting pot and Manasseh and Ephraim had an Egyptian mother.

That was the hand that rocked the cradle.
 

northwye

New member
I have never seen a dispensationalist-Christian Zionist interpretation of Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29. They always ignore it and/or bring up some other text.

How is taking New Testament texts to mean what they plainly state applied to Romans 11: 25-26? "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26.And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

The dispensationalist-Christian Zionists will say the meaning of Romans 11: 25-26 that when the fullness of the Gentiles happens, or all the Gentiles God intends to save are saved, then all Israel will be saved. Or all living at that time, or some living at that time.

But this interpretation is inconsistent with Romans 9: 6-8, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

In verse 6, the "plain" interpretation might be that Paul is saying there are two Israels. That is not what he is teaching because he says in verse 8 that they who are children of the flesh are not the children of God. There is just one Israel, which he in verse 8 calls the children of the promise, counted as the seed.

This meaning in Romans 9: 6-8, that the children of the flesh, by which he means those of Old Covenant Israel who claim to be the physical descendants of Abraham and are not born again in Christ are not the children of God, is supported by II Corinthians 3:6-11. There Paul talks about the ministration of death which is the same as the ministration of condemnation in this text and the ministration of the spirit or the ministration of righteousness. He says in verse 11 that the ministration of condemnation is done away with. Just as the children of the flesh are not the children of God - in Romans 9: 6-8 - so the ministration of death-condemnation, which is the Old Covenant, is not of God.

Galatians 4: 24-26 also agrees with the interpretation of Romans 9: 6-8 that the children of the flesh - Old Covenant Israel without Christ - are not the children of God. There Israel of the flesh, called Jerusalem which now is, is in bondage with her children, but the Jerusalem (Israel) which is above, is free, and is the mother of us all. Clearly, the Jerusalem which is the mother of us all, refers to Israel as being the mother of all the elect of God. Of course, dispenationalism-Christian Zionism, which here can be called separation theology, claims God now has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel and the Church.

Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29 also supports that interpretation. Galatians 3: 16 focuses on the covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17, by saying that "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3: 16 also focuses upon Genesis 13: 16, that Abraham would have many descendants, or seed, and on Genesis 26: 4, where the same promise of many seed is given to Issac and on Genesis 28: 14 where the promise of many seed is also given to Jacob.

And then Paul says "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

This is subtle. Paul does not say in an explicit way that the physical bloodline from Abraham does not exist in the New Covenant. For dispenstionalist-Christian Zionists to understand what Paul is saying in Galatians 3, that is exactly what the text would have to say for it to be understood by some of these people.

But in saying in Galatians 3: 26-29 that all who have faith in Christ are the children of God, and whether they are Greeks or Jews does not matter, because everyone who is Christ's is the seed of Abraham, Paul is implying with certainty that the physical bloodline from Abraham does not determine who is Christ's and who is the seed of Abraham.
 
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Danoh

New member
northwye, you'll have to take that up with whatever books "about" based reasoning you get your obvious misinformation from: the Acts 9 Dispy (which is what most TOL Dispys hold to) neither holds to Christian Zionism, nor to the notion that "all Israel will be saved" somehow includes unbelieving Israelites.

Your straw would be put to better use as a king size mattress :chuckle:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye, you'll have to take that up with whatever books "about" based reasoning you get your obvious misinformation from: the Acts 9 Dispy (which is what most TOL Dispys hold to) neither holds to Christian Zionism, nor to the notion that "all Israel will be saved" somehow includes unbelieving Israelites.

Your straw would be put to better use as a king size mattress :chuckle:



Most of us are not interested in what is or is not MAD. We have bibles. We just find the most self-organized passages in it and that's our statement. Good luck with the MAD crap, but it is a waste of time and energy.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
In Calvinism, God has a 'revealed will' and a 'secret will'. His revealed will is what is told to us, and his secret will is His plan from the beginning in how He conducts His revealed will.
I don't care what "Calvinism" teaches. Those who I have encountered who embrace "Calvinism" are merely those who fail or flat out refuse to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. I'm interested in what saith the scripture?

It's twofold, but with only one people and goal- denying that Christians are Spiritual Israel is as grave an error as denying the Trinity- there was never a time in Christian history where anyone, period, figured otherwise or that we are simply 'grafted' to physical Israel.
:rotfl:

The fact of the matter is that if one denies Christ, being Jewish is not an immunity to whatever consequence may come of that. And as well, the Antichrist will be coming out of Christianity as soon as the gates open to Jewish-Chistian syncretism- I can almost guarantee it. He will probably be sitting in Peter's seat, and the Jews will reckon that he is the Messiah.

So y'all keep on getting in bed with Israel like everyone else is with Islam- it's ironic, really :wave2:
:AMR:
 
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