What think you? I would say no. Adam sinned through free will.
Was God responsible for Adam's sin?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
glorydaz
Well-known member
Free will is responsible for Adam's sin. So I vote we blame it on God.
One would think that would be a hard choice for God. It isn't like He didn't know giving men the freedom to sin wouldn't result in his sinning. Of course, God also knew that without free will there can be no love, either, and He certainly wanted to have a love relationship with man. Good thread BR. :thumb:
False Prophet
New member
Blame it on the woman if you can't pin it on God!
beloved57
Well-known member
Theres no blame on God, He did not sin !
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Responsibility presumes there is someone that can hold another to account. God is not accountable to anyone, so I would avoid claiming God is responsible for this or that.
God is immutable in His counsels (Mal. 3: 6; James 1: 17), so it follows that all which comes or happens to man has been eternally ordained by Him (Eph. 1: 11), according to what a proper understanding of God's providence entails. See also here.
The immutable counsel of God does not exclude second causes. In fact it does not cancel but establishes second causes by which all things come to pass. For God, in ordaining what ought to come (2 Sam. 12: 11), ordains also the measures (the means) by which it pleases Him that such things should come to pass and in such a way that although there is found some vice or fault in the second cause, yet is there no evil in the everlasting counsel of God.
Did God know Adam would sin? Of course. God's knowledge is actual, for He has ordained (see above) all that happens. The divine decree is the necessary condition of divine foreknowledge. If God does not first decide what shall come to pass, He cannot know what will come to pass. An event must be made certain before it can be known as a certain event. In order that a man may foreknow an act of his own will, he must first have decided to perform it. So long as he is undecided about a particular volition, he cannot foreknow this volition.
"But what if the foreknowledge of God, and the liberty of the will, cannot be fully reconciled by man? Shall we therefore deny a perfection in God to support a liberty in ourselves? Shall we rather fasten ignorance upon God, and accuse him of blindness, to maintain our liberty?" [Stephen Charnock, The Existence and Attributes of God, vol. 2 (1853; repr., Grand Rapids: Baker, 1996), 450.]
AMR
God is immutable in His counsels (Mal. 3: 6; James 1: 17), so it follows that all which comes or happens to man has been eternally ordained by Him (Eph. 1: 11), according to what a proper understanding of God's providence entails. See also here.
The immutable counsel of God does not exclude second causes. In fact it does not cancel but establishes second causes by which all things come to pass. For God, in ordaining what ought to come (2 Sam. 12: 11), ordains also the measures (the means) by which it pleases Him that such things should come to pass and in such a way that although there is found some vice or fault in the second cause, yet is there no evil in the everlasting counsel of God.
Did God know Adam would sin? Of course. God's knowledge is actual, for He has ordained (see above) all that happens. The divine decree is the necessary condition of divine foreknowledge. If God does not first decide what shall come to pass, He cannot know what will come to pass. An event must be made certain before it can be known as a certain event. In order that a man may foreknow an act of his own will, he must first have decided to perform it. So long as he is undecided about a particular volition, he cannot foreknow this volition.
"But what if the foreknowledge of God, and the liberty of the will, cannot be fully reconciled by man? Shall we therefore deny a perfection in God to support a liberty in ourselves? Shall we rather fasten ignorance upon God, and accuse him of blindness, to maintain our liberty?" [Stephen Charnock, The Existence and Attributes of God, vol. 2 (1853; repr., Grand Rapids: Baker, 1996), 450.]
AMR
Did God know adam would sin??? YES
I look at it this way (and i may be wrong of course) i have a will without a doubt, BUT its not free, i have my restrictions i.e i cannot run 100 meteres in 9 seconds,i cannot put my i q has high as einstien for instance etc etc.
I look at it this way the Lord knows my end of days,and whatever path i think im choosing the Lord knows what im going to choose.He has a purpose for me and he will fulfill his purpose.I thank him every day for every breath and every heartbeat,he didnt have to form me but he did.Praise the Lord amen.
I look at it this way (and i may be wrong of course) i have a will without a doubt, BUT its not free, i have my restrictions i.e i cannot run 100 meteres in 9 seconds,i cannot put my i q has high as einstien for instance etc etc.
I look at it this way the Lord knows my end of days,and whatever path i think im choosing the Lord knows what im going to choose.He has a purpose for me and he will fulfill his purpose.I thank him every day for every breath and every heartbeat,he didnt have to form me but he did.Praise the Lord amen.
beloved57
Well-known member
amr
Thats just one definition of responsibility, another definition is:
Being a source or cause, God is the First Cause of all things, of Adam as Well, If God would not have gave Adam being, could Adam have sinned ? NO he could not have. So who was responsible for giving Adam being so that he could sin ?
Thats just one definition of responsibility, another definition is:
Being a source or cause, God is the First Cause of all things, of Adam as Well, If God would not have gave Adam being, could Adam have sinned ? NO he could not have. So who was responsible for giving Adam being so that he could sin ?
That is the firstborn old man Esau twin nature.
Put that one to death because God hates that one.
You can do all things through Messiah who strengthens you.
It is your choice . . . :crackup:
oatmeal
Well-known member
God did not ever cause anyone to sin.
And He never tempts anyone to sin.
James 1:12-16
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
He gave man free will.
That is, man can freely choose what he wants to think and do.
Now, that does not imply that man is wise enough to choose rightly or even sanely.
Wisdom is an acquired attribute.
Proverbs 4:5
Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Free will does not imply that man has the ability to do what he chooses to think or do for free will does not imply omnipotence
so...you have a young child. And you have just bought a nice aquarium, with five expensive attractive tropical fish swimming in it...you need to go out, so you tell your child: "I will be out for a few hours now. You are on your own. Behave yourself, and whatever you do do not touch the Aquarium!"
You come back in a few hours- what are the chances that the aquarium is intact? How many fish are left?
You come back in a few hours- what are the chances that the aquarium is intact? How many fish are left?
Free will is responsible for Adam's sin. So I vote we blame it on God.
One would think that would be a hard choice for God. It isn't like He didn't know giving men the freedom to sin wouldn't result in his sinning. Of course, God also knew that without free will there can be no love, either, and He certainly wanted to have a love relationship with man. Good thread BR. :thumb:
This is exactly what feewill theology does and why I argue so vehemently against it.
It blames God
All the sin of mankind, the disease. the poverty, wars, death, utter misery. All this according to freewill theology is God's fault. Glorydee is totally right in spotting this.
God never gave man freewill, God forbade him...."see that tree? LEAVE IT ALONE"
Man did have a choice and this is totally consistant with love, he could live or he could die. If he lived that was God's will, for man was not created of his will but of God's good will. He could die and that would be by rejecting God's will.
So to live is God's will and to die is death...dead men do not have freewill.
God created man and He placed man in a garden of great beauty and abundance. God could not make it any plainer to man that His will for Him was only good and that continually. He put man in a place of great honour and responsibility.
Man rebelled, he ratted on God, that's the truth, let everyone know it and that is the explanation of ALL the evil that has befallen mankind ever since....to blame God for it is a double rat.
Ain't it just like man to be a double rat.
God is versatile, he creates good and he creates evil.
"The buck stops here." (Harry S. Truman)
WeberHome
New member
-
I think that some people would like nothing better than to haul humanity's
creator into court for product liability. (chuckle) That would be about as
productive as hauling Kim Jong-un into a North Korean court for human
rights abuses.
Regardless of people's discontent with the creator's management practices;
He's in power and He's gong to win because nobody is big enough to take
Him out; and his detractors will grind their teeth with white-hot fury because
He ignored their whining and paid no attention to their complaints.
Awwww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwwww!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I think that some people would like nothing better than to haul humanity's
creator into court for product liability. (chuckle) That would be about as
productive as hauling Kim Jong-un into a North Korean court for human
rights abuses.
Regardless of people's discontent with the creator's management practices;
He's in power and He's gong to win because nobody is big enough to take
Him out; and his detractors will grind their teeth with white-hot fury because
He ignored their whining and paid no attention to their complaints.
Awwww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwwww!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ben Masada
New member
Very good BR, I finally got you with the hand in the truth. God is responsible for the sins of no man and the reason is because of man's Freewill.
WeberHome
New member
-
God knew what he was doing when He knowingly brought humans into the
world with a free will to sin. In like manner; parents know what they are
doing when they knowingly bring children into the world with a free will to
sin. So then; if God is to blame for His creation's sins, then parents are to
blame for their progeny's sins; because we certainly wouldn't want to hold
God to a double standard-- that wouldn't be fair.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
God knew what he was doing when He knowingly brought humans into the
world with a free will to sin. In like manner; parents know what they are
doing when they knowingly bring children into the world with a free will to
sin. So then; if God is to blame for His creation's sins, then parents are to
blame for their progeny's sins; because we certainly wouldn't want to hold
God to a double standard-- that wouldn't be fair.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Of course he did. The Savior was slain from the foundation of the world for that very reason.