toldailytopic: Vaccinations ... Yay or Nay?/Why or Why not?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 15th, 2012 09:11 AM

toldailytopic: Vaccinations ... Yay or Nay?/Why or Why not?

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[Stripe]

Nay - I hate needles.

 

[AlephTav]

Nay. Too much crud in the vaccinations themselves. I don't see the purpose of getting a vaccination every year (flu), when I can take the chance of not getting sick at all, and build up my immune system in the process.

 

[ebenz47037]

I asked my daughter's pediatrician about vaccinations about ten years ago. She told me that one vaccination will immunize a person for life against said disease. She, then, proceeded trying to convince me to get the varicella vaccination for :jessilu: even though :jessilu: had already had chicken pox when she was in kindergarten.

 

[Eeset]

I think vaccinations against life threatening or debilitating diseases are a good thing. Others, not so much.

 

[Rusha]

I think vaccinations against life threatening or debilitating diseases are a good thing.

This sums up my position as well.

 

[Choleric]

nay, vaccines do not work and should only be used in cases of outbreaks etc. My children do not get them, and none of us get flu vaccines. Too much garbage in the vaccines and too many side effects for very tiny payoff.

 

[Sherman]

I give them the Yay vote. Here are my reasons: Vaccines have been instrumental in stamping out many once common diseases, especially those of childhood. Do we here much about polio in the US anymore? Flu vaccinations can hold influenza in check. I'd much rather have the shot then the flu.

Vaccines contain weakened or dead versions of the antigens that cause diseases. This means the antigen cannot produce the disease, but it activates the immune system into producing antibodies making the person immune to the disease. Vaccines not only help keep people healthy, they also help children by stamping out serious childhood diseases.

Much of the objection against vaccines is the concern over their safety. Vaccines are actually quite safe. The protection provided by vaccines far outweighs their risks. Any treatment in medicine carries with it some risk. There is far greater risk in no treatment at all.

 

[Selaphiel]

nay, vaccines do not work and should only be used in cases of outbreaks etc. My children do not get them, and none of us get flu vaccines. Too much garbage in the vaccines and too many side effects for very tiny payoff.

So you think it is a coincidence that small pox just happened to die out once mankind started vaccinating against it? It is not a tiny payoff, you are simply getting by on herd immunity which works as long as enough people get immunized.

Yes, there are some side effects and they can very rarely be serious. Then again, vaccines aren't used for fun, those risks are nothing compared to the diseases they ward us against. I think vaccination deniers are ultimately selfish and they get by by leeching off those who take the risks (although statistically those risks aren't significant).

 

[Cracked]

I give them the Yay vote. Here are my reasons: Vaccines have been instrumental in stamping out many once common diseases, especially those of childhood. Do we here much about polio in the US anymore? Flu vaccinations can hold influenza in check. I'd much rather have the shot then the flu.

Vaccines contain weakened or dead versions of the antigens that cause diseases. This means the antigen cannot produce the disease, but it activates the immune system into producing antibodies making the person immune to the disease. Vaccines not only help keep people healthy, they also help children by stamping out serious childhood diseases.

Much of the objection against vaccines is the concern over their safety. Vaccines are actually quite safe. The protection provided by vaccines far outweighs their risks. Any treatment in medicine carries with it some risk. There is far greater risk in no treatment at all.

Yup--old diseases are making a comeback due to a lack of vaccination--unnecessary and sad, really.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yup--old diseases are making a comeback due to a lack of vaccination--unnecessary and sad, really.

I agree.

I don't think flu vaccinations are necessary though unless a person is in a high risk group.

I think children should be vaccinated though for measles, mumps, rubella, polio, chicken pox and things like that.

 

[Lighthouse]

I haven't done the research.

 

[notreligus]

Last Fall my wife received a flu vaccination. The most recent flu vaccine is different than the previous year's. Ask a pharmacist or physician to explain what is different. Soon after my wife developed what is called ITP, or diopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. This is a bleeding disorder which is typically fatal as one's blood platelet level becomes so low that you can bleed out, or have a brain bleed that ultimately kills you. One's minimum blood platelet count is supposed to be 150,000 and my wife's dropeed to 13,000. At 10,000 they just write you off as going to soon be dead. This was discovered during a routine blood test she has by her regular physician at least twice a year.

She was referred to a blood specialist practice where they have about twenty doctors who specialize in cancer and other blood disorders; i.e. people with life-threatening illnesses. I am pleased to say - praise the Lord - that she has recovered and her platelet count is consistently staying above 150,000.

Doctors are not sure of the exact cause of ITP as many things can trigger it, but they are so widely ranging that no one has yet discovered what they have in common to trigger ITP. In her case, they told her that the flu vaccine was likely the trigger. This medical practice has identified the flu vaccine as the culprit with several patients they have with ITP. The local population is about 1.3 million people, for comparison. My wife's regular physician told her that she has what is called a hyper-immune system or one that is almost too good. This flu vaccine triggered her immune system to get into such a high gear, so to speak, that it wrecked her platelet count. You must have enough platelets in your blood or your blood cannot coagulate when needed.

The point: If you are prone to get the flu and colds and such, then consider this vaccine. If you stay generally healthy and your body has a naturally good immune system, then pass on the flu vaccine. Despite what the pharmaceutical companies want everyone to believe, not every vaccine or medication is good for every person.

 

[Maximeee]

Yay, but we do it on a delayed schedule (Dr Sears wrote a great book on it) and we skip some (chickenpox, HPV & Hepatitis).

 

[The Barbarian]

Vaccines are safer than the alternatives, given that even measles and chickenpox can later cause severe or catastrophic illness years after the first episode.

But there are some things you need to make your pediatrician aware of. Kids with impaired immune systems should be carefully evaluated before giving any live virus vaccines. They are safe for normal individuals, but those taking immune suppressive drugs or with impaired immune systems, are at a higher risk of getting disease from the vaccination.

We stopped doing smallpox vaccinations in the U.S. long before smallpox was finally eradicated. And we did it, because one or two people out of a million vaccinated, actually contracted smallpox from the vaccination (all because of an impaired immune system).

The risk at that point was greater in taking the vaccination, because smallpox was effectively eradicated from the United States.

Nothing is without risk. But only a fool takes the riskier choice.

 

[bybee]

Vaccines are safer than the alternatives, given that even measles and chickenpox can later cause severe or catastrophic illness years after the first episode.

But there are some things you need to make your pediatrician aware of. Kids with impaired immune systems should be carefully evaluated before giving any live virus vaccines. They are safe for normal individuals, but those taking immune suppressive drugs or with impaired immune systems, are at a higher risk of getting disease from the vaccination.

We stopped doing smallpox vaccinations in the U.S. long before smallpox was finally eradicated. And we did it, because one or two people out of a million vaccinated, actually contracted smallpox from the vaccination (all because of an impaired immune system).

The risk at that point was greater in taking the vaccination, because smallpox was effectively eradicated from the United States.

Nothing is without risk. But only a fool takes the riskier choice.

When we were small children the fear of Polio was endemic. My parents took us to our cabin for the summer. Schools closed early so people could get their children out of town. Minneapolis is a city of parks and pools and lakes. All swimming areas were shut down because it was thought that infection might come from them.
When the vaccine became available I almost wept with relief for my children's sake.

 

[The Barbarian]

There's a lot of irony in the whole episode. First, water is a vector for polio, so swimming might indeed have increased the risk. The problem is that polio is so rarely catastrophic, that it's hard to establish any chain of contagion.

Most people who get polio, have a mild intestinal disturbance that his hardly noticed. In societies less concerned with cleanliness, children are exposed to it quite young. And if so exposed, almost never get the paralytic form of the disease. Paralytic polio is quite rare in societies where hygiene is poor.

Because the virus is ubiquitous, we'll never be free of it, and the polio vaccine will be the only sure way of preventing it.

 

[Choleric]

So you think it is a coincidence that small pox just happened to die out once mankind started vaccinating against it? It is not a tiny payoff, you are simply getting by on herd immunity which works as long as enough people get immunized.

Yes, there are some side effects and they can very rarely be serious. Then again, vaccines aren't used for fun, those risks are nothing compared to the diseases they ward us against. I think vaccination deniers are ultimately selfish and they get by by leeching off those who take the risks (although statistically those risks aren't significant).

I have been down these rabbit trails on these forums before. There is some value to vaccinations, but it is not as great as many assume. The idea that people want to be vaccinated against chicken pox is ridiculous. Polio, ok, at one time that was probably a great benefit.

THe negative effects on society as a result of vaccinations are easily demonstrated. Of course, many people don't do any more research into these things than watching the evening news and believing what the pharma companies tell them.

People actually believe that flu vaccines work, even though they have to take them every year (hint: if they worked, you would never need more than one) "But there are different strains" etc etc. Right, hook, line and sinker and the vaccine companies laugh all the way to the bank. I had two grandmothers, one never got the flu vaccine and never got the flu. One got the shot every year and got the flu almost every year.

As one example, look at the rise in shingles. Shingles occurs in older people who contract(ed) varicella, the same virus that causes chicken pox in the younger populations.

used to be that most people get chicken pox at a young age and as they grow, they come into contact with other people who have chicken pox and that contact is like an immune booster (what booster shots attempt to mimic). now that more of the population is being vaccinated against chicken pox, less people are coming into contact with the natural immune booster and therefore the incidence of shingles is on the rise. What do the pharma companies suggest? A shingles vaccine! They create the first problem, and make money off of the solution.

I had a titer done on MMR and varicella and I was negative for MMR immunity but positive for varicella. coincidentally, my varicella antibodies were very high, and we recently had a few kids in church get chicken pox. I assume I got an immunity boost from being in thier proximity.

And even though I was vaccinated as a child for MMR, and even had one round just two years before my titer, I came up negative for MMR immunity and had to get another vaccine in order to work. Vaccines do not work, and they are dangerous to overall health.

If there is a polio outbreak, or bird flu or some other such disease, then it may be an option, but for general health, it is not worth it.

 

[Nick M]

I think some of it is money, and nothing more. Small pox not included. Varicella is absurd, that is true.

 

[Dena]

I'm not a big fan of vaccines. We'll either skip them all together or only choose a few for our future children.