toldailytopic: Theistic evolution: best arguments for, or against.

[Tolken]

Jesus walked in the garden after creating it. When you speak of immovable, you're not talking about the entire globe in relation to the sun. You're talking about the land we live on.

I know of Christophanies throughout the old testament but this is a new one. I’m curious can you link me to some scholars who assert that it was Jesus walking in the garden and interacting with Adam and Eve? Still, God didn’t know where they were since He had to ask...correct? A plain reading says "earth" not "land" so I believe in the many verses that can be sited you are mistaken...also, did you consider earthquakes?

It might just be an indication of where the creatures were made.

That is weak, as clearly a "plain" reading shows that "Land" is the subject. If you "let" something that is a permission or command to do something, in this case it is to produce living creatures. That is the clear and plain text in Genesis!

Maybe things were not created instantly. Maybe they grew up in a few hours. :idunno: Something like that.

Next time you plant a garden let me know what seeds you use that will have things grow in "a few hours". I believe God to be meaningful and you are making Genesis sound like some children's golden book! The animals formed a line and Adam sat at a desk giving them names...sort of like a 19th century immigration check point at Ellis Island!


He had a plan, tested it and found it needed doing.

So God's initial plan was a failure, that is what you are saying. God needs to test things because he isn't sure whether things will work out the way that he expected??

The belief that there are millions of years between the days.

I appreciate that we disagree however it is from scripture that my beliefs are formed. I just happen to believe God's word is meaningful not fanciful.

 

[Stripe]

Where in Genesis does God define a "day" as 24 hours? How can you have a 24-hour day without the Sun?

A day is not defined by a number of hours. It is defined by the time taken for one sequence of sunrise and sunset. These observations are the result of the Earth orbiting a light source. Now if you don't have a sun you clearly cannot have sunrise and sunset, which is perhaps why Genesis' authors chose to speak in terms of evening and morning.

You can have evening and morning and thus the first three days without a sun by having the Earth orbit an alternate light source.

 

[Stripe]

I know of Christophanies throughout the old testament but this is a new one. I’m curious can you link me to some scholars who assert that it was Jesus walking in the garden and interacting with Adam and Eve?

I don't know of any.

Still, God didn’t know where they were since He had to ask...correct?

Yip. There's plenty of that sort of thing that goes on throughout the bible. Some choose to say God knew, but was testing. I prefer to think that God interacts with us on a level we can understand and appreciate. If Adam (or we) had to interact with God when he already knew everything we would ever do, it wouldn't be much of a relationship.

A plain reading says "earth" not "land" so I believe in the many verses that can be sited you are mistaken...also, did you consider earthquakes?

I should be a little more specific than "plain reading". It's not always easy to understand a verse, so we must investigate with care the intent and proper exegesis of a passage.

So when it says "Earth" we should remember that is from the Hebrew "erets" and remember that word has a number of applications. In this case it's most likely referring to the land we live upon.

Earthquakes are something of a specialty of mine so, yeah, I did consider them. I think these types of passages are generally in reference to God's promise to never again flood the Earth.

That is weak, as clearly a "plain" reading shows that "Land" is the subject. If you "let" something that is a permission or command to do something, in this case it is to produce living creatures. That is the clear and plain text in Genesis!

Possibly.

Next time you plant a garden let me know what seeds you use that will have things grow in "a few hours". I believe God to be meaningful and you are making Genesis sound like some children's golden book! The animals formed a line and Adam sat at a desk giving them names...sort of like a 19th century immigration check point at Ellis Island!

Like God brought the animals to Noah, so He brought them to Adam. What does it matter if He asked them to form an orderly line?

So God's initial plan was a failure, that is what you are saying. God needs to test things because he isn't sure whether things will work out the way that he expected??

No. The text says:

Gen 2:18
And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.​

So God responded to a need He saw. That does not mean He was unaware that He might have needed to cater for this. It's likely He planned for plenty more contingencies as well. Perhaps we'll learn some of them when we meet Him.

I appreciate that we disagree however it is from scripture that my beliefs are formed. I just happen to believe God's word is meaningful not fanciful.

The text says "Six days" and "The whole Earth". :idunno:

 

[eameece]

A day is not defined by a number of hours. It is defined by the time taken for one sequence of sunrise and sunset. These observations are the result of the Earth orbiting a light source. Now if you don't have a sun you clearly cannot have sunrise and sunset, which is perhaps why Genesis' authors chose to speak in terms of evening and morning.

You can have evening and morning and thus the first three days without a sun by having the Earth orbit an alternate light source.

Better answer than usual from you. :first:

The only problem I see with this scenario is, where did the alternate light source go?

There is no other light source out there now that makes a difference in terms of day and night on Earth.

Also, Genesis does not speak of the Earth rotating; the authors had no such concept. So how can you define the length of evening and morning on the basis of what is given in Genesis?

 

[Tolken]

Stripe - at this point it seems pointless to continue as we've begun to spin around here. Thanks for your time in discussing this and I'm sure that the topic will arise again and then ...once more into the fray!

 

[Stripe]

where did the alternate light source go?

Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. :banana:

Also, Genesis does not speak of the Earth rotating; the authors had no such concept. So how can you define the length of evening and morning on the basis of what is given in Genesis?

With a rotating Earth.

Stripe - at this point it seems pointless to continue as we've begun to spin around here. Thanks for your time in discussing this and I'm sure that the topic will arise again and then ...once more into the fray!

Peace.

 

[eameece]

Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. :banana:

Not enough light for a morning, sorry!

With a rotating Earth.

There was none. Stop adding to the Bible what isn't there! Read your Bible as it was written!

 

[Stripe]

Not enough light for a morning, sorry!

Yeah. Not now. lain:

There was none. Stop adding to the Bible what isn't there! Read your Bible as it was written!

I don't think the bible says anything about the Sun rotating either. I guess it is fixed in place. lain:

And next time, try grammar. :thumb:

Really. Did you think this was a good argument? :AMR:

 

[eameece]

Yeah. Not now. lain:

Where did it go?

If the light was the big bang, I guess you think the Earth and the Big Bang were separate things created together. That's what the Bible says I guess. Kinda strange implications, what you get by combining science and mythology in the way you are trying to do. If you are going to combine science and the Bible in that way, you might as well combine the Bible with evolution.

I don't think the bible says anything about the Sun rotating either. I guess it is fixed in place. lain:

Right, so there could not have been a morning and evening; no day IOW.

 

[Stripe]

Where did it go?

It dissipated. As light tends to do.

If the light was the big bang

It wasn't.

If you are going to combine science and the Bible in that way, you might as well combine the Bible with evolution.

Evolution isn't science.

Right, so there could not have been a morning and evening; no day IOW.

What are you on about now? :AMR:

 

[noguru]

Evolution isn't science.

What are you on about now?

 

[The Barbarian]

A day is not defined by a number of hours. It is defined by the time taken for one sequence of sunrise and sunset.

Which is why we know that "yom" in that context does not mean "day." Can't have one with no sun to have sunrises and sunsets.

 

[Stripe]

Which is why we know that "yom" in that context does not mean "day." Can't have one with no sun to have sunrises and sunsets.

Which is probably why the bible says "evening" and "morning". :dunce:

 

[The Barbarian]

No mornings or evenings without a sun, either. Unless you want to redefine words.

An old creationist habit.

 

[voltaire]

Can God have an evening and morning before his creation was made? It is the end of the day and the beginning of the day. The sun was made for MAN to set times and seasons, not God.

 

[Stripe]

No mornings or evenings without a sun, either. Unless you want to redefine words.An old creationist habit.

Why? Because you say so? Not good enough, sorry.

Fact is that if the Earth is rotating and there is an appropriate light source, we will see evening and morning. Time to find a good reason for rejecting God's word rather than playing silly games. :thumb:

 

[The Barbarian]

Time to find a good reason for rejecting God's word rather than playing silly games.

Stipe usually finds a way to do both.

 

[Angel4Truth]

No mornings or evenings without a sun, either. Unless you want to redefine words.

An old creationist habit.

Ever read Revelation 21:23 ?

Sun wasn't needed with Gods direct presence in creation.

 

[The Barbarian]

Ever read Revelation 21:23 ?

No mornings and evenings there, either. In the physical universe, however, mornings and evenings are defined by the Sun. And as you see, it's absurd to imagine mornings and evenings without them, as the early Christians noted.

 

[Stripe]

No mornings and evenings there, either. In the physical universe, however, mornings and evenings are defined by the Sun. And as you see, it's absurd to imagine mornings and evenings without them, as the early Christians noted.

The bible trumps the founders of your faith, sorry. And the bible records mornings and evenings before there was a sun. Makes sense, too. Because all one needs in order to see evenings and mornings is an appropriate light source and a rotating Earth.