toldailytopic: "Soup kitchens": Do they help or hurt the homeless?

[lightbringer]

There are people whose illness is fear. They fear other people. They cannot function in society because of the necessity of being able to continually interact with other people on a relatively civil basis.
Many so called "bag ladies" will not accept help which has strings attached. They will accept food, clothing and minimal shelter but they will not give up their freedom. Who knows what has happened to these women to cause them to be so fearful? Perhaps a genetic glitch, perhaps illness, perhaps severe abuse?
They will never be able to be integrated into society in any productive way.
I believe that they deserve, as children of God, a portion of my resources.

:thumb: You have always combined and demonstrated the wonderful qualities of compassion and an ability to see past the surface into the real problem that some people have, Thank you bybee!

Only wish some of your attitude would rub off on LH, he is one of the strangest Christians I have ever seen.

 

[bybee]

A calling

A calling

:thumb: You have always combined and demonstrated the wonderful qualities of compassion and an ability to see past the surface into the real problem that some people have, Thank you bybee!

Only wish some of your attitude would rub off on LH, he is one of the strangest Christians I have ever seen.

Thankyou for your kind words to me. I've been thinking a good deal about this topic "soup kitchens". And in a way it is analogous to my own family.
I have five children, three of them are doing well, two of them are not. I continue to love, nurture and support each of them as needs arise and as I have resources to share.
My father taught me that it is not my business what people may or may not do with resources I choose to share with them. What matters is that I show someone that I care enough to share. When I hand two dollars to a skinny, skanky looking vagrant I say "God speed buddy I wish you well". Invariably, they bless me in return.
But in a larger context, I cannot know if I have planted a seed that might, someday, bear good fruit. But for sure, if I don't attempt to plant the seed there can be no possibility of fruit!
I, by the grace of God, am well fed, clothed, sheltered and nurtured by the love of family and friends. Since I have been widowed my neighbor shovels snow and mows my yard for me.
I am blessed.

 

[lightbringer]

Thankyou for your kind words to me. I've been thinking a good deal about this topic "soup kitchens". And in a way it is analogous to my own family.
I have five children, three of them are doing well, two of them are not. I continue to love, nurture and support each of them as needs arise and as I have resources to share.
My father taught me that it is not my business what people may or may not do with resources I choose to share with them. What matters is that I show someone that I care enough to share. When I hand two dollars to a skinny, skanky looking vagrant I say "God speed buddy I wish you well". Invariably, they bless me in return.
But in a larger context, I cannot know if I have planted a seed that might, someday, bear good fruit. But for sure, if I don't attempt to plant the seed there can be no possibility of fruit!
I, by the grace of God, am well fed, clothed, sheltered and nurtured by the love of family and friends. Since I have been widowed my neighbor shovels snow and mows my yard for me.
I am blessed.

In the vernacular of our youth of today....you talk the talk and walk the walk...

Thank you.

 

[Granite]

The 'least of these' were children. We are to care for the orphan and fatherless. Only by implication could you see homeless able-bodied men as falling under that compassion umbrella. I'm with Knight on this one, I say if they are in a homeless shelter and getting food, put them to work doing something they are able to do, in the community for it. Cleaning highways during the day, helping out carrying stuff on a construction site, volunteering at a food bank, working in a park. There is nothing wrong with giving a man dignity as well as food. For me, the answer isn't doing away with those kitchens, it is using them as stepping stones toward productivity rather than shutting them down.

The "least of these" did not refer only to children. I've never seen Christians go to such lengths to defend not supporting soup kitchens, for crying out loud. And then you guys act puzzled when the idea of you people running a country frightens people like me. Gee: can't imagine why...

 

[Arthur Brain]

You would say that, being an old timer and all.

I hope you're referring to 'old timer' as in the sense of tenure...

lain: :noid:

That's very kind of you. I don't normally bring that up, but in some instances I do. There are some (not you) who have accused me of not understanding what it means to go through trials, so when the topic of tribulation scratches its way to the surface, I will sometimes mention this particular aspect of my life.

You're welcome. I think it's the height of ignorance to presume that another hasn't faced trials based on an opposing argument.

Unrealistic, yes. But this isn't the main reason I object. For some it would be enough to try (a little like the starfish on the beach story, yes?) even if it made little difference to the big picture. No, my real reason for objecting to this is that it is a little like an emergency room doctor putting a bandaid over a gun shot wound. It stops the problem for a while, but...

Then we're not completely off the same page on this that I can see. Soup kitchens in themselves will never solve the problem. All they can do is provide some temporary shelter, warmth and food, but that's still better than nothing if you're cold and hungry. But it's obviously not a solution and that's what needs to be addressed. I'd love for kitchens to be completely unnecessary but if it's reliant on the conditional help of churches and 'moral individuals' then that won't cut it.

It's not as though I don't support trying to encourage people to get out of the rut, but when you figure in all the factors such as health etc it's not something that could be applicable to everyone in such a position.

Cicero once said, "When you wish to instruct, be brief; that men's minds take in quickly what you say, learn its lesson, and retain it faithfully. Every word that is unnecessary only pours over the side of a brimming mind."

:scripto:

Ok, ok, who am I kidding. I am the same way. My mouth runneth over. I can't help it.

You have issued the challenge, and a challenge you shall receive. (Please stay tuned...)

I was once taught business studies by a guy with the most boring monotone voice imaginable. To be fair the subject matter was hardly stimulating but the manner in which he went 'round the houses' combined with his voice almost made me narcoleptic....neat quote. And yes, you're not kidding anyone, you need to be waaaaaay more concise.

I await your challenge with eager anticipation!

:maxi:

:devil:

 

[bybee]

Now, now!

Now, now!

The "least of these" did not refer only to children. I've never seen Christians go to such lengths to defend not supporting soup kitchens, for crying out loud. And then you guys act puzzled when the idea of you people running a country frightens people like me. Gee: can't imagine why...

I'm one of "those people". I hope you aren't afraid of me?
I believe what Lon was getting at was let those who are able-bodied work for their keep. That is Biblical and worthwhile.

 

[Granite]

I'm one of "those people". I hope you aren't afraid of me?
I believe what Lon was getting at was let those who are able-bodied work for their keep. That is Biblical and worthwhile.

No, but you're a sweetheart and an exception to the rule.

I don't think anyone would dispute that: if you can work, do so. But the mercilessness and the outright heartlessness on display here isn't Christian at all: it's pathologically vicious, bybee, and as far removed from Jesus as I can imagine. This isn't Christianity at work; this is Capitalism, at its worst.

 

[bybee]

Thanks Granite

Thanks Granite

No, but you're a sweetheart and an exception to the rule.

I don't think anyone would dispute that: if you can work, do so. But the mercilessness and the outright heartlessness on display here isn't Christian at all: it's pathologically vicious, bybee, and as far removed from Jesus as I can imagine. This isn't Christianity at work; this is Capitalism, at its worst.

In order for christianity to hold water, as it were, it must be working "where the rubber meets the road". Feeding the hungry is a basic obligation in any society. Once they are fed, further assistance may or may not be offered.

 

[Town Heretic]

I wonder if it is even possible, for a man, to calculate the harm his "kind acts" do, when done in such a way as to take away the motivation to help oneself?

Christ didn't say that if a man asks for your cloak you should first make darn certain that he won't sell it to buy strong drink.

There are all sorts of problems with your line of thinking. By way of example, let's say your kindly pastor (or you) offers a prayer in public one of these days. A passerby, embittered and angry with God, hears that prayer and is driven into a rage. He vents his rage by going to his truck and getting his rifle...BAM...so we shouldn't pray in public. Who knows the damage a kind and good act will do? Another man gives a homeless man a job and the ability to leave that life behind him. He becomes a serial killer. Absurd? Again, who knows?

That's the point. You can't alter good conduct on the chance someone will misuse the benefit you offer. That way lies disobedience wrapped in the disguise of virtue. Our obligations in love to one another aren't couched in that language and the master who forgave a debt to a man who then did not follow his example wasn't lessened or at fault for the second man's failure.

 

[Nydhogg]

Lo! Behold!

Only in the mouths of some conservative christians you'll see "followers of christ" rejecting charity... With social darwinism as backing up their arguments!

Hilarious.


Holding "public decency" and "christian values" as an excuse to be jerks to or even oppress their fellow human beings, and "tough love" as a fancy excuse to avoid fulfilling their duty to give charity.

Jesus was no authoritarian, and wasn't a social darwinist either. The guy was all into "feed the hungry, give a beer to the thirsty, clothe the naked and shelter the homeless"'n'stuff.


Pharisees, the whole lot of'em.

 

[Arthur Brain]

A couple of years ago a friend of mine lost his job by being hard headed. I helped him and I helped him and I helped him. I helped him come up with game plans to get back to work. I picked him up and took him to temp agencies who were hiring and even offered him day work. I watched him turn down the work as he waited to see if his unemployment appeal would prevail. The representative of his former employer failed to make it to the appeal so he won his case and didn't look for a job, even once until his unemployment ran out.
I personally witnessed the "kind acts" of the government, the soup kitchens, the food pantry and the homeless shelters suck the will to "do for himself" out of this man!

Then you tried to help him and he refused. It sounds to me as though he had already willed this with or without the soup kitchens and welfare on standby. One case doesn't represent the whole or even the majority and I fail to see where it's the Christian's place to judge who is or isn't deserving. You knew this guy. You won't know why the stranger in a cardboard box is down on his luck.

Look at the parable of the good Samaritan. While all the others had walked on by what did he do? Did he question why the stranger was lying bleeding in the street? Did he wonder whether he may have actually deserved or asked for his fate?

No, he saw someone in need of care and attention and gave it to him.

 

[nicholsmom]

It is the duty and privilege of the local communities to feed and otherwise care for their poor and disenfranchised populations. When we fall down on the job, the politicians in DC take up the clarion call to do it in their cold, legalistic fashion from a distance far enough to not have to look at or care about the hurt and the deep need of the individuals receiving the services.

 

[MrDeets]

Lo! Behold!
Only in the mouths of some conservative christians you'll see "followers of christ" rejecting charity... With social darwinism as backing up their arguments!

It is sad. However, I think alot of those very same folks would agree with Bybee when she said

I believe what Lon was getting at was let those who are able-bodied work for their keep. That is Biblical and worthwhile.

Thats the problem with a big ole forum.... people get too blood drunk wanting to argue and scream and rebuke. Its easy to get off topic or to forsake the OP's question/point.

I am one of those who believes in charity and WORK. I will and have helped out the homeless with some cash. I have shared the Word with homeless folks, and I have taken some a sammich as well. There are many ways we can help those in tough times, but I think at some point people should want to help themselves. Unfortunately we can't MAKE all of them go to work tomorrow, nor can we let them starve to death. Looks like we're in one heck of a pickle!

I get frustrated that my tax dollars go to folks who can work but won't. I get SO bothered by folks collecting a gooberment check while still cranking out babies and ignoring any chance for a job. BUT people aren't all hard workers. Its a lot easier to catch a free gov't check than to humble yourself and go work at BK or Taco Bell. Unfortunately, in our society there is almost always some bad that comes with the good, and vice versa.

Ultimately I think soup kitchens are a good thing. Feed those that need it. Shoulda just typed that and my dern hands wouldn't be cramping.

 

[Lon]

The "least of these" did not refer only to children. I've never seen Christians go to such lengths to defend not supporting soup kitchens, for crying out loud. And then you guys act puzzled when the idea of you people running a country frightens people like me. Gee: can't imagine why...

Er, I have repeatedly said I support soup kitchens. My post was in defense of one's 'christianity' regardless of their position. Get the gist, please.

My quote said that the verse doesn't address able-bodied men specifically. That isn't to say it cannot, just that one who believes it doesn't isn't being anti-biblical. I hold your position on helping, I disagree that anybody who doesn't share our view isn't biblical.

 

[Nydhogg]

Didn't see Jesus putting qualifiers on which downtrodden should get help and which should not when I read the Bible.

If Jesus is who he says he is, many a conservative will have an unpleasant afterlife. "as you do to them you do to me" and that stuff.

 

[nicholsmom]

Christ didn't say that if a man asks for your cloak you should first make darn certain that he won't sell it to buy strong drink.

There are all sorts of problems with your line of thinking. By way of example, let's say your kindly pastor (or you) offers a prayer in public one of these days. A passerby, embittered and angry with God, hears that prayer and is driven into a rage. He vents his rage by going to his truck and getting his rifle...BAM...so we shouldn't pray in public. Who knows the damage a kind and good act will do? Another man gives a homeless man a job and the ability to leave that life behind him. He becomes a serial killer. Absurd? Again, who knows?

That's the point. You can't alter good conduct on the chance someone will misuse the benefit you offer. That way lies disobedience wrapped in the disguise of virtue. Our obligations in love to one another aren't couched in that language and the master who forgave a debt to a man who then did not follow his example wasn't lessened or at fault for the second man's failure.

Well said :BRAVO:

This reminds me of an online friend who put in her status one day that it is her policy to give without asking why - she said (much better than I will say it here) that it is her Christian duty to be free with that which God puts in her hand, and it is wholly the responsibility of the receiver to ensure that those funds are used appropriately. It is not the giver's responsibility to ensure that another adult acts responsibly with our gifts. If all is God's and God is Sovereign, then we should just give at any opportunity that He places in our path.

I must confess that I am not as far along this path, insofar as obedience to give is concerned, as is my friend :sigh:

 

[nicholsmom]

Didn't see Jesus putting qualifiers on which downtrodden should get help and which should not when I read the Bible.

If Jesus is who he says he is, many a conservative will have an unpleasant afterlife. "as you do to them you do to me" and that stuff.

Luke 6:30

 

[Rusha]

I am not understanding why anyone would be against a soup kitchen or similar charities.

My father, up until the last 6 mos. of his life, helped to serve the homeless or anyone else who wanted to eat in the cafeteria of the church he attended. I or my mother went along and helped him (being that he was ill and all) to serve and prepare food.

This was one thing I REALLY did respect about my parent's preacher is how much he tried to reach out and help the community.

Even if there are a few bums who refuse to work, what of those who are not? It was actually nice to see Christians who spoke of loving their neighbor and not just talking the talk but actually walking the walk.

 

[Lon]

A person can also be wise with their funds. I'm actually pleased with any kind of giving to perceived needs.

About 20 years ago, my wife and I started supporting Compassion International. We've supported 3 children as each grows up and another child becomes available. Our first Child was from Zimbabwe named Andre`.
We chose Compassion because almost all monies went directly to the child and his community toward medicine, food, education, and job skills. Our child also had a translator so we wrote back and forth. He'd draw us pictures of lions and hyenas and tell us how he was doing and we'd share our everyday life with him. The first Christmas we sent $20 so he could buy chickens, a goat, a soccer ball or a duck. To me it was a no brainer: I imagined him playing in the field with his new soccer ball. After Christmas he wrote us a thank you for his new goat
After 4 years of support, there was a bloody civil war and we lost contact with Andre` for 2 years, not knowing if he was alive. Compassion started a campaign to help out the massive tent cities of refugees. We cried and sent our support and prayed for two years. Andre` had gone from his home with his family to avoid the war and they came back after it ended. He lost his uncle in that war but we were thankful Andre was safe.

We have no problem with giving toward most any charity. Personally, we wanted to give an account for our dollars spent and to do so wisely as stewards of what resources we possess.

Sorry for the long wind, I'm focussing on giving in general and I think it speaks to the larger issue than just a soup kitchen. I support our local foodbank in talents and gifts among other forms of giving. I have no problem with a believer that doesn't share my same values as long as they are giving to needs they perceive somewhere. It doesn't have to be a soup kitchen.

 

[doodlebug]

It's like spoon feeding a baby. The longer you hold the spoon, the harder it gets for him to take matters into his own hands.

Suggesting that firmly established routines for handing out food cannot be replaced by good people seeing genuine need and meeting it is called blindness.

Suggesting that an established routine will be able to discriminate between the needy and the leech better than the generous individual is nonsense.

Suggesting that people will go wanting without established charities handing out food is to ignore the fact that people go wanting with established charities handing out food.

I say close down established food distribution units and see what happens. I guarantee you needy people will still get their needs met and people leeching off such systems will find a way to feed themselves.

stripe, what if they had to do some work to eat, would that not help them work and eat?