toldailytopic: Should the NFL overturn last night's Packers vs. Seahawks game and awa

[drbrumley]

What do you mean "originally"?

He caught the pass. Then in the "continuation of the play", Tate got his hands in there before they were ruled down thereby ending the play. It became simultaneous as they both went down ending the play. It was bang bang. The ref made a decision based on what he saw, and it wasn't overruled. Case closed.

 

[jeffblue101]

Tate got his hands in there before they were ruled down thereby ending the play

But that is not how the rule is applied. its about who had control of the football first.

"Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control."

 

[Nick M]

In order for it be a be a touchback, a signal must be given that a change of possession took place. :idunno:

He did that. Over his head together and apart stops the clock, unless there is no clock. It shows a touchback when there is no clock, or a turn over.

 

[drbrumley]

He did that. Over his head together and apart stops the clock, unless there is no clock. It shows a touchback when there is no clock, or a turn over.

Well, then maybe he was confused. They are replacements you know. If that is a score or turnover with "no time left," then if he thought it was a pick, he would have/should have possession Green Bay?

 

[jeffblue101]

He caught the pass. Then in the "continuation of the play", Tate got his hands in there before they were ruled down thereby ending the play. It became simultaneous as they both went down ending the play. It was bang bang. The ref made a decision based on what he saw, and it wasn't overruled. Case closed.

also, Tate's right hand comes off the ball when they were falling down. I'm trying to find a good Hi-res picture of that moment.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I'll guarantee you one thing: had the Seahawks been on the other end of the deal, ACLU attorneys would be meeting with the Obama adminstration to see if there could be some sort of hate crime charged against the Packers.

 

[drbrumley]

But that is not how the rule is applied. its about who had control of the football first.

"Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control."

I was wrong. Isn't the first and won't be the last. By the photo I submitted, Tate's hands are on the ball first. Thereby he controls it. Jennings arms are in such a way Tate has no way to bring the ball closer to him. But he has it. Feet has not touched ground yet.

The photo clearly shows Jennings hands are not even touching the ball yet.

So between the time Tate had to remove a hand to get around Jennings arm and both falling in the end zone, it becomes a simultaneous catch. Because Tate again retains both hands on the ball establishing possession.

 

[jeffblue101]

The photo clearly shows Jennings hands are not even touching the ball yet.

touching the ball first doesn't equate to control, to which Jennings established control of the football first. secondly, the fact that Tate had to "remove" his right hand or was unable to secure his right hand on the football proves that he never had control of football simultaneously with Jennings. Jennings clearly had control before Tate repositioned his right hand on the ball.

 

[drbrumley]

touching the ball first doesn't equate to control, to which Jennings established control of the football first. secondly, the fact that Tate had to "remove" his right hand or was unable to secure his right hand on the football proves that he never had control of football simultaneously with Jennings. Jennings clearly had control before Tate repositioned his right hand on the ball.

It isn't worth arguing about.

 

[kmoney]

I hadn't been able to watch a video of the play until now. After watching it, man, I don't know what to say. It's not as cut and dry as I was expecting based on all the commentary on the radio today. But I do think Jennings had control first. Did Tate really have control with one hand? I kinda doubt it. But it was so hard to see a clear shot.

As far as the PI goes, yes it was really bad, but there is PI on every hail mary pass. I can't blame the refs too much for not calling it.

 

[Nick M]

Well, then maybe he was confused.

I think he was the only one that isn't confused. He saw the interception and ruled as such.

 

[Granite]

I hadn't been able to watch a video of the play until now. After watching it, man, I don't know what to say. It's not as cut and dry as I was expecting based on all the commentary on the radio today. But I do think Jennings had control first. Did Tate really have control with one hand? I kinda doubt it. But it was so hard to see a clear shot.

As far as the PI goes, yes it was really bad, but there is PI on every hail mary pass. I can't blame the refs too much for not calling it.

I think it's obvious he didn't touch the ball first and didn't maintain control. Any way you slice it this was a horrible call, it's just a matter of whether or not it's a solid 10 on the Replacements Suck-o-Meter or a 9.

 

[Lighthouse]

I heard some of the replacement refs were from the Lingerie league and they got fired from it because they didn't know how to make calls.

 

[Nick M]

ESPN is reporting today that referee that called touchdown is the same guy that got the coin toss wrong on Thanksgiving. I remember that.

 

[kmoney]

ESPN is reporting today that referee that called touchdown is the same guy that got the coin toss wrong on Thanksgiving. I remember that.

In addition to that, I heard that he was the same guy who had a bad call on a Testaverde touchdown years ago. I don't know if that's definitely true though.

 

[Granite]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ightyear-agreement?module=HP11_headline_stack

Here are the terms. Is it just me or did the refs get exactly what they were asking for?

 

[Nick M]

Now the NFL can get back to making the right call.

bad call bad rule

Of course the NFL later after the game pulled out the tuck rule to hide the screw up of the referee who said it was a pass attempt. The tuck rule is a bad rule. Just like saying a black man is 3/5 of a human. I don't care what the rule is, it is still wrong.

 

[Granite]

Now the NFL can get back to making the right call.

bad call bad rule

Of course the NFL later after the game pulled out the tuck rule to hide the screw up of the referee who said it was a pass attempt. The tuck rule is a bad rule. Just like saying a black man is 3/5 of a human. I don't care what the rule is, it is still wrong.

Ummmmm...WHAT?:jawdrop:

P.S. I'm pretty sure they cited the rule during the game.

 

[Nick M]

Watch the clip again. After the replay the referee said his arm is coming forward, and that makes it an incomplete pass.

I remember Christ Berman saying (paraphrasing on my part) they were on the phone with the league for several hours. The reason for that is the nonsense call and trying to find away. Nobody heard of it before, yet that play has happened many times before. QB makes a pump fake, gets nailed, fumble, turnover. But because Al Davis was a jerk, they had it out for him.

I just don't think they should cheat those players because of him.

 

[Granite]

Watch the clip again.

:chuckle:

Nick, I'm a Pats fan. I saw this live and have seen it plenty of times over the years...and I doubt I'll ever forget it.

After the replay the referee said his arm is coming forward, and that makes it an incomplete pass.

Coleman clarified what he said later: the call was correct, but his wording on-field wasn't. The ball wasn't moving forward at the time Brady was smashed, but his arm already had. What wasn't disputed was that Brady had moved his throwing hand (and ball) forward. As written (and, frankly, I think the rule's fairly absurd), what he did was attempt a pass: "Any intentional forward movement" is the language of the rule, and that's what technically constitutes a pass.

Nobody heard of it before, yet that play has happened many times before.

It'd been on the books for two years. I figure it must've been called in college games, but I don't know if it had ever been enforced in the NFL prior to this game. I do know it's been called subsequently.

But because Al Davis was a jerk, they had it out for him.

I see, so all the sudden this a league or officials (or both) conspiracy? Remember, this call didn't lose the game for Oakland. Vinatieri's kick tied it, but that's all. The Raiders still had their chances to win the game.