toldailytopic: Is the economy improving and now heading in the right direction?

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 12th, 2012 10:07 AM


toldailytopic: Is the economy improving and now heading in the right direction?




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Nathon Detroit

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The media is acting like things are clearly on the uptake. Job numbers, housing, etc. watching the news would make one think everything is getting better.

But what about in the real world?

What's your opinion of the state of our economy?

And if you live outside the USA, how is your country doing?
 

ragTagblues

New member
In our country things could be worse could be better . . . .

However I think our government has had to make some really hard decisions, some I agree with some I don't, much of which is to do with the undoing the damage of the previous government. I think that is something to always bear in mind.

Things will get better, I am just aware that it will take time.

Also for the record I am not supporter of the current party in power, I just think they have been more decisive then other parties would have been.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Gary North had a good piece on this today. And I agree with his sentiment

KEYNESIAN CENTRAL PLANNING

The main economic problem we face today is the widespread use of Keynesian central planning by government bureaucrats and central bankers. Keynesianism has increased the level of government subsidies to various parts of the economy. This has made economic systems more fragile. They are being tinkered with by committees of government experts. Here, we can have something that resembles collapse. The best case in recent history is the USSR. But the Keynesian system is not Soviet-like in its intensity. It is a middle-of-the-road policy. It can lead to serious economic disruptions, and it has. But to speak of outright economic collapse is misleading.

The free market compensates for bad policies. Better (profit-seeking) knowledge is constantly being substituted by individuals for poor (bureaucratic) knowledge. This process happens at the margin, "little by little, line upon line." This means that economic losses produce individual allocation responses that benefit customers.

Warfare produces collapse. Liberty doesn't.

All talk about all large, complex systems using too much energy, which in turn causes an unexpected collapse, is inherently statist. It implies that the free market has created a self-destructive social order. It implies that liberty of association and the right of contract have created a sociaty-wide accident waiting to happen.

Keynesianism creates very large accidents that are waiting to happen. Keynesian black swans are very large and fly very high. It is best to stay out from under them.

But there are few signs outside of fractional reserve banking that Keynesianism has created a society at the edge of collapse. There is too much freedom remaining for that to happen, short of biological warfare or an EMP.

Collapse, No. Huge Losses, Guaranteed
 

Nathon Detroit

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From where I sit things have never been worse and seem to be sliding further and further away. I have never seen such a horrible post Christmas in all my years of doing the business that I do. In my business, I get to see a good snapshot of what consumers and advertisers are doing, if they have money to spend, and if they are spending that money.

My gut feel is that the media would love to "paint" the economy as in a recovery mode but the evidence tells me a dramatically different story.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
NO, it is not.

As long as big government politicians, Democrats, socialists, liberals and communists are working against the Constitution, the economy will continue to deteriorate as it is now doing.

God is bigger than all that, but believers must believe.
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
From my perspective things are much much better. Im in construction in northern Colorado. We had a way better year in 2011 than the previous 5 years.
We were fairly busy all of 2011 but have exploded in late 2011.

Starting around November I think people have been saving up a bunch of projects and have all started them at once. We've hired 3 people since November and are relying on staffing companies to keep up, which isnt ideal but we have to. I expect things will slow down when this initial rush of projects ends, but we'll see to what level. But no question things are better in construction than 2 - 5 years ago.

EDIT: Also, when people call us for service calls we are having to turn them down, or schedule them 3ish weeks away. We hate to do this but we just can't hadle the work. I always wonder if we are just in a bubble and the other companies like us in town are slow, or are they experiencing the same thing. We hear from people that other companies are doing the same thing, and are very busy. So that gives me hope.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
"All economic movements, by their very nature, are motivated by crowd psychology. Without due recognition of crowd-thinking ... our theories of economics leave much to be desired. ... It has always seemed to me that the periodic madness which afflict mankind must reflect some deeply rooted trait in human nature – a trait akin to the force that motivates the migration of birds or the rush of lemmings to the sea ... It is a force wholly impalpable ... yet, knowledge of it is necessary to right judgments on passing events." -- Bernard Baruch
 

Delmar

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I'm not sure about things in general, but I haven't had a raise in six years and my expenses keep going up. I can't really switch jobs even if I could find a better one because, if I switched and the job didn't work out, I would be without health insurance.
 

Buzzword

New member
No.

The middle class is still sliding toward the polar regions of poor or super-rich (the majority going to the former).

Corporations are still squeezing every last dollar out of their employees and the government without one shred of improvement in products or services.

Employment may be up, but employment means nothing if the majority of employed adults can't earn enough to break even, much less save for retirement or emergencies.

Delmar said:
I'm not sure about things in general, but I haven't had a raise in six years and my expenses keep going up. I can't really switch jobs even if I could find a better one because, if I switched and the job didn't work out, I would be without health insurance.

Case in point.
 

noguru

Well-known member
From where I sit things have never been worse and seem to be sliding further and further away. I have never seen such a horrible post Christmas in all my years of doing the business that I do. In my business, I get to see a good snapshot of what consumers and advertisers are doing, if they have money to spend, and if they are spending that money.

My gut feel is that the media would love to "paint" the economy as in a recovery mode but the evidence tells me a dramatically different story.

I think you hit the nail on the head. They are trying to bolster our confidence to get more people spending again.
 

noguru

Well-known member
This from the same guy who said that there was going to be devastation after Y2K?
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2000/01/33445

To answer Knight's question:

Everything will get better the closer to November it gets.

Uhm, it did not happen because people like me were contracted from 1997 up until 2000 to address all the issues with this. I had a 3 year contract with an international auto parts manufacturer. We had systems running parrallel by Sept. 1999. And continued testing through the New Year, because some of the issues were not to arise until end of the first quarter and end of year. So while most people did not realize the impact this was having, many IT people were fast at work making sure there was no major problems.
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
Maybe not from the POV of the republican national committee. Every percent the unemployment rate drops means more votes for the democrats. The thing the republicans most feared is upon us. If it persists and grows, Obama is re-elected.

Expect Congress to act, and soon.
 

rocketman

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 12th, 2012 10:07 AM


toldailytopic: Is the economy improving and now heading in the right direction?


Hardly! if it was not such a shame it would be laughable that anyone would even try to spin it as if the economy is rebounding but, we can spend our way out of it right?
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
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Pretty slow improvement, but improvement it is. Enough to make republicans start to sweat. "Up" is better than the direction the last administration took us.
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
Uhm, it did not happen because people like me were contracted from 1997 up until 2000 to address all the issues with this. I had a 3 year contract with an international auto parts manufacturer. We had systems running parrallel by Sept. 1999. And continued testing through the New Year, because some of the issues were not to arise until end of the first quarter and end of year. So while most people did not realize the impact this was having, many IT people were fast at work making sure there was no major problems.

Kind of a goldmine for COBOL programmers who were good at untangling code.
 
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