toldailytopic: How old is the earth?

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Alate_One

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I'll be there with all those who do not call God a liar, like you do.
Never did that. You have construed what I've said in that way, but it is not accurate.

My faith is. You have no faith.


But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.



Malice is not the mark of a saved person, where is your love, gentleness or mercy?

I judge according to what someone says they believe, which is how we are to judge. I have no problem being judged by what I believe. I believe God, you believe man. You WILL go to hell. Count on it.
I've already shown that by your own standard you already fail. I can guarantee you don't believe in a flat earth, geocentrism or a hard domed sky with waters on top of it. Yet, if we take all of scripture's descriptions of the natural world as MUST BE BELIEVED OR GOD IS A LIAR, then you fail by your own standard. YOU believe men and their telescopes and spaceships over God.

I, on the other hand, don't believe that God is actually teaching us any of these things, that's your dysfunction. The ancient science of the Bible is simply the standard description of the time, it isn't a point of faith we are required to hold.
 

Arthur Brain

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All I can say is that it is at least 22 years old, so if anyone thought it was less than that, you can feel confident bumping your estimate up to 22! :)

Does that mean that the formative years of my life could have been a 'matrix' style dream? I'm in my 30's man, have some consideration! The earth is older than 22! I'm so confused...

The red pill or the blue one...but which one's metaphor and which one's literal? :think:

Maybe some valium is in order...

:eek:
 

Persephone66

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Not important and no need to ramble on. All you need to say is you do not believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Actually all you need to say is, “I do not believe."

Well yeah, but the point I was trying to make was that I don't see why the age of the Earth should change the real message of the Bible, what ever that message is. It's a holy text, not a science book.

What I'm seeing here at this point is a petty bickering match with at least one person saying "I'm more Christian than you are!" or rather implying it.
 

Stripe

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Gen 1:1 says God created the Heaven and the earth. YEC's see this as day 1.
In Job 38:7 we see that all the angels rejoiced when God created earth.
So, if there was nothing before day 1, and then all the angels rejoiced when earth was created, wouldn’t that mean the angels had to be created in the 6 days also?
It would mean that Lucifer was created with the other angels during the six days, rebelled against God during the six days, took a third of the angels with him during the six days, but before God rested on the seventh day.
It doesn’t make any sense.
There is no mention of Lucifer or angels being created during the six days. If they existed before the six days then where did they exist at since God created the Heaven and earth on day 1 (according to YEC’s)
So God created angels before He created the Earth. :idunno:

No to all. Which is why a larger proportion of Christians are either OEC, gap theorists, theistic evolutionists or other variations.
There you go again with thinking popularity is some indication of accuracy. :kook:
In my view these will eventually drive out YEC, just like geocentrism in the church eventually died out.
Geocentrism died out because the Greek philosophies were rejected. Nothing in the bible should lead any sensible reader to the conclusion that the sun orbits the Earth.

People like Sozo are the ones in the minority. They just make the most noise and demand everyone agree with them or they must be Hell-bound.
Who cares how many people agree with an idea. Just tell us why it is wrong.

I read em all. :) (even your links)

GREAT! The you'll be able to help Barbarian with his failure to read all of them. :up:
 

Stripe

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Well yeah, but the point I was trying to make was that I don't see why the age of the Earth should change the real message of the Bible, what ever that message is. It's a holy text, not a science book.
The clear message in the bible is that God created the Earth in six days about 6,000 years ago. If you're not able to get that right (whether you accept it as fact or not) then you're not likely to get anything right.

What I'm seeing here at this point is a petty bickering match with at least one person saying "I'm more Christian than you are!" or rather implying it.

I'm more of a Christian than you are. :p
 

Persephone66

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The clear message in the bible is that God created the Earth in six days about 6,000 years ago. If you're not able to get that right (whether you accept it as fact or not) then you're not likely to get anything right.
Well that's a rather silly thing to center a religion around.



I'm more of a Christian than you are. :p
Thank you Captain Obvious.

I'm thankful I'm smart enough not to belittle myself as a human being and be a Christian.
 

MaryContrary

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Well yeah, but the point I was trying to make was that I don't see why the age of the Earth should change the real message of the Bible, what ever that message is. It's a holy text, not a science book.

What I'm seeing here at this point is a petty bickering match with at least one person saying "I'm more Christian than you are!" or rather implying it.
If the bible is incorrect on that one point (or any other) then it is not the word of God and is, in the end, just another book. So for a Christian to suggest it's wrong on this point is significant. If that is so, then nothing in this mere book is reliable and their "Christianity" is founded on nothing.

I think you understand this point perfectly, which is why you mock. I think you would be pleased if none argued for scripture and all who call otherwise call themselves Christians denied it. It would support your own rejection of Christ.
 

Persephone66

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If the bible is incorrect on that one point (or any other) then it is not the word of God and is, in the end, just another book. So for a Christian to suggest it's wrong on this point is significant. If that is so, then nothing in this mere book is reliable and their "Christianity" is founded on nothing.

I think the Pope used almost the same argument against Galileo. Or was it Martin Luther? I did a research paper on conflicts between the church and science during the Scientific Revolution when I was in college, had to give a speech on it too.

And it turned out that Galileo was right and we still have Christians today.

I think you understand this point perfectly, which is why you mock. I think you would be pleased if none argued for scripture and all who call otherwise call themselves Christians denied it. It would support your own rejection of Christ.
You know that's a great point let me think about that.

No, wait, that belongs in a bag in the garden section labeled fertilizer. I've done plenty of explaining about why I reject Christ, if you are too lazy to read it or if you think I'm lying I'll just leave you to your misconceptions.
 

alwight

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The clear message in the bible is that God created the Earth in six days about 6,000 years ago. If you're not able to get that right (whether you accept it as fact or not) then you're not likely to get anything right.
Was that measured in Groundhog days?;)
 
Never did that. You have construed what I've said in that way, but it is not accurate.
You state that there was a "Big Bang", therefore calling God a liar, who says that the earth was created before the sun, moon, and stars, thus making YOU the liar.

Again, you prove you have no faith. Hebrews 11:3 is quite clear. Exodus 20:11 is believed by those in the faith. Those in the faith first believe God, not man. They do not attempt to recreate what the Bible says, to line up with science. Those who do, make science their god, which is what you worship, and not God. God made matter out of nothing. Nothing means nothing. God created those thing that make up matter, and He did it in 6 days. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" is a statement of fact. An introduction of the glory of God. There is no "gap" and there is no "Big Bang". The foundation of the Gospel message rests on the truth presented in the creation account, and man's disobedience when death entered the world. There are no fossils older than around 6,000 years. The crux of the Gospel is laid out in Romans 5. Unless it is a literal account of His-story, then the rest of the Bible is worthless.

It is your faith in science that is worthless.
 

Stripe

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Well that's a rather silly thing to center a religion around.
Christianity is centered around Christ, hence the name. He is the be all and end all. The age of the earth is a bit of a side issue, but people's response to the question posed is a fairly good indicator of how seriously they take their faith.

Thank you Captain Obvious.
You are so very welcome. Gay-boy.

I'm thankful I'm smart enough not to belittle myself as a human being and be a Christian.

No. You prefer to be a pervert and destroy yourself instead. :vomit:
 

Stripe

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Old Earth Christian: I believe God raised Jesus from the dead in order to pay the price for my sin as His word says, but I do not believe that same word when it says the same God created the universe in six days.

OECs are a bizarre breed. :chuckle:
 
Old Earth Christian: I believe God raised Jesus from the dead in order to pay the price for my sin as His word says, but I do not believe that same word when it says the same God created the universe in six days.

OECs are a bizarre breed. :chuckle:
They are unbelievers by definition.
 

Stripe

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They are unbelievers by definition.
Clearly they don't believe in the creation story as it is presented to them. But they might well believe that Christ was raised from the dead. And that belief, coupled with faith, might well save them.

But it does seem highly unlikely that someone would walk such a path. I'd say a little skepticism would be a reasonable thing. :)
 
Clearly they don't believe in the creation story as it is presented to them. But they might well believe that Christ was raised from the dead. And that belief, coupled with faith, might well save them.

But it does seem highly unlikely that someone would walk such a path. I'd say a little skepticism would be a reasonable thing. :)

I'm not sure anyone understands why I keep quoting Hebrews 11:3
Either that, or I'm not sure anyone understands what it means to have faith.

Faith is the evidence of someone that is in Christ. It doesn't mean we have to understand everything, it's just that we believe Him above everything.

Noah did not seek the wisdom of men as to whether or not it could rain enough to flood the world. He believed God. Abraham had no evidence that a man could rise from the dead, yet he raised the knife believing God.

Faith comes from hearing. Faith is something you receive when you believe God. By faith Noah..., by faith David... and so on. When men say that the world was created some other way and in some other time frame than what is stated by God, it reveals that they are not in the faith. They may not understand it, but they believe God apart from what they perceive as evidence to the contrary.

Hebrews 11:3 is not saying that we believe that the world was prepared by the word of God, or that we believe that the things which see were made from what is not visible. Rather, because we have faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. Big difference. Again, faith is the evidence.
 

Psalmist

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toldailytopic: How old is the earth?



Introduction: Long ago and far away, it was in the beginning God…Created…And it took six days.


Thomas the Psalmist 1:1-9
The VATM
(The Version According to Me)
1 Let there be light and dark, and there is.
2 The land separated from the sea, and life created, and it still is.
3 Vegetation was created, and now we have little and big cans of V-8.
4 Next the sun moon & stars were and they are still in place.
5 Then was created fish, plants, reptiles, and birds,
and a program called “Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom.”

6 Next livestock and wild animals for the zoos,
and created a man to be curator the zoos and a woman to be curator of the man.

7 And God saw that it was good, and said and said, “Now it is time to rest.”
8 Then God said, “People, your on the clock.”
9 Thus ends the lesson.


I think the earth is not quite seven thousand years old; I think the length of the six day of creation and the seventh day of rest were twenty-four hour days, which the twenty-four hour day was established when God said let there be. But I wasn't there, but God was and is, and God knows.

 

Alate_One

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You state that there was a "Big Bang", therefore calling God a liar, who says that the earth was created before the sun, moon, and stars, thus making YOU the liar.
The creation God left behind shows us there was a great flash of light, an origin. I don't believe the six days are actually intended as an ordered account of "this then that". Considering the numbers are cardinal rather than ordinal in the original Hebrew, its a reasonable assumption. Plus the verb translated "to create", may not actually mean that . . .

Unfortunately because you only look at the English text and are unaware of your own cultural bias you've rendered yourself incapable of sitting down to figure out what Genesis 1 is ACTUALLY saying.

Again, you prove you have no faith. Hebrews 11:3 is quite clear. Exodus 20:11 is believed by those in the faith. Those in the faith first believe God, not man.
There's nothing incongruous about the Big bang and Hebrews 11:3. I really don't understand why you think so. It's not like you could SEE any of the particles involved anyway. And obviously I think God has and continues to ordain and sustain ALL of creation.

As for Exodus, do you believe God laid down and RESTED on the seventh day, like a human would?

They do not attempt to recreate what the Bible says, to line up with science.
I do not do that. YOU do!


And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.




In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.



Do you believe there's a vault in the sky with windows? If not You're "making God into a liar" in your own scheme of things. If you try to explain these in light of science, then you are doing the same thing you accuse me of.

Those who do, make science their god, which is what you worship, and not God.
Guess you're in that category. I don't modify scripture to fit science. I take it for what it is, ancient descriptions that are not meant to teach science, but WERE meant to teach theology and order. Genesis 1 is a semi-poetic structure that specifically attacks pagan, polytheistic ideas in the Ancient Near East. When viewed in that light it becomes an even more amazing document, showing God's training and molding of His people to spread His message.

There is no "gap" and there is no "Big Bang".
How can you be sure there is no Gap between Genesis 2:2 and Genesis 2:4? They are two entirely separate accounts.

The foundation of the Gospel message rests on the truth presented in the creation account, and man's disobedience when death entered the world.
Man's fall does not require the earth to be 6000 years old.

There are no fossils older than around 6,000 years.
And this is the problem. You are the one putting science on a pedestal. Because you believe scientific knowledge is just as important (probably more important the way you are acting) than spiritual understanding, you think the Bible MUST teach science or it is "wrong". I don't think science is actually that important. You've bought into modern scientific empiricism more than I have, and that's what's really sad, because you don't even realize it.

Your worldview is not the Bible's worldview. The Bible tells us, by the way it speaks, that science isn't that important. Science will not be anyone's savior, it will not tell us how God wants us to live our lives or to treat others. Science deals with the workings of the physical world. The Bible isn't concerned with those things. And this is because we can figure them out for ourselves using the mind and tools that God gave us. We could never figure out the salvation story using science.

The crux of the Gospel is laid out in Romans 5. Unless it is a literal account of His-story, then the rest of the Bible is worthless.
Again . . .an old earth does not necessarily negate Adam's role in mankind. There are almost an innumerable variety of views That can accommodate an old earth and original sin. You are not God Sozo. You, do not have power to condemn anyone. You may think you have a perfect understanding of scripture to back up your assertions. But nowhere in scripture is it said that one must believe in a literal 6000 year old earth to stay out of hell.

However there are plenty of verses against, judging others, slander, and hateful speech.
 

Stripe

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Which would almost make sense . . . if Sozo didn't already hold science over scripture.

As Luther said, "Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth," Doesn't it make Joshua and by implication, God out to be a liar to tell the sun to stand still, if we say science tells us the sun is always still with respect to the earth?

So if we want to truly "believe God" we should all become geocentrists, no? And believe there are waters above the heavens, Stars can fall to earth etc. That's where "the Bible says it, I must believe it" leads if you're actually consistent. But Sozo and the like aren't, they pick and choose the parts of scripture they can accept literally and those they can't.

This same logic has been used before and discarded. The argument over the age of the earth, creation and evolution are just a replay of the geocentrism argument that has been long settled.

Or you can acknowledge that God chose to use the "science" of the time to speak to ancient people, just as He used their specific language and culture to communicate. With that in mind we can understand that scientific knowledge is actually not at all important to understand messages of faith. Its simply part of the cultural backdrop.

Um....this is from Eric's site:

He first found himself “in the papal doghouse” when he published his “Dialogues Concerning the Two Chief World Systems” (1632), a work supporting the Copernican notion that the earth is not the center of the universe

You’re missing the point.

The point is that YEC’s base everything on one verse that they take literally. If that’s how you want to base your YEC beliefs, then we find when we apply this same system to other verses pertaining to the sun, then we would have to conclude that geocentrism is Biblical, which is what Christians did before science showed them they were wrong.

For some reason YEC’s think that if they embrace OEC, advocating for evolution has to follow. This is not true.

I'll try again; the mindset of the YEC today is the same as the geocentric mindset of the early 1600's.

Or it could have been that God stopped the earth from rotating around the sun. What we do know is that the sun was already standing still.
Christians who mock the church for being geocentric and hold this example up as why we should embrace an old earth view are weird. Watch this!

1600s. The church believes in a scientific falsehood founded by pagans until a few inspired fellows suffered a bit of ridicule in order to change the view.

2010s. The church believes in another couple of scientific falsehoods that are obviously counter to the clear teaching of the bible and a few YECs on TOL are called nuts for insisting reality is otherwise.

And the coup de gras? Old earthers suggest that because they are in the majority they are more likely to be correct. :rotfl:

:mock: Evolutionists.
 
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