in the primary
toldailytopic: How do you balance your sense of patriotism with your disgust for what
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
in the primary
PureX
Well-known member
No, I don't. Just because someone is a liar and a fool doesn't mean that I have to hate them. I also lie, and I also am a fool. That doesn't mean I can't recognize the condition in others. And it doesn't mean I can't point it out.
Very clever of you to turn the tables on me like that, though. We sure haven't seen that tactic used on here ten thousand times, before.
some other dude
New member
I think you'll have to use finger puppets if you want Purex to understand
Yet when we do the same (i.e, point out that liberals are liars and fools) you consider that hate. :idunno:
It wasn't that clever of me. Your post was so stupid, it was the obvious response.
Son of Jack
New member
All the failures of even the best forms of government are meant to teach us that our hopes shouldn't be set on a restoration of this, or any other, country. It should be set on the restoration of man. I think about the Apostle Paul operating for all those years within the confines of the pagan Roman Empire, with all of its moral depravity, and never once did he complain about the government. Augustine's City of God helped me quite a bit on this subject.
Is this all too cynical? Maybe. I think I'm being realistic.
Is this all too cynical? Maybe. I think I'm being realistic.
:think: Interesting. I'm optimistic and that seems, historically, realistic to me as well. I guess it's the old glass half full/what the heck is that in the glass anyway distinction.All the failures of even the best forms of government are meant to teach us that our hopes shouldn't be set on a restoration of this, or any other, country. It should be set on the restoration of man. I think about the Apostle Paul operating for all those years within the confines of the pagan Roman Empire, with all of its moral depravity, and never once did he complain about the government. Augustine's City of God helped me quite a bit on this subject.
Is this all too cynical? Maybe. I think I'm being realistic.
Quincy
New member
I just take it in stride. I'm too much of an optimist to let it depress me. The truth seems to be that they'll never be a time where we have what I think the majority would like: a conservatively fiscal, socially liberal environment in this country. So I try not to think about it much. You have two core bases in both parties that want everything.
We can financially manage the country but everyone has to follow our moral compass or you can have all the liberty you want but we are going to spend like crazy on most likely fruitless progressive ideas. Just manage the country responsibly and give us liberty.
We can financially manage the country but everyone has to follow our moral compass or you can have all the liberty you want but we are going to spend like crazy on most likely fruitless progressive ideas. Just manage the country responsibly and give us liberty.
Son of Jack
New member
:think: Interesting. I'm optimistic and that seems, historically, realistic to me as well. I guess it's the old glass half full/what the heck is that in the glass anyway distinction.
It's not so much that I'm saying that all is lost. I look at history, and I see that all of the great "lights" of the world throughout history have come and gone. Sure, some last longer than others, but they all fade given enough time and the right set of circumstances. Recently, I've been teaching the fall of the Roman Empire, and many of the same problems that plagued that empire are plaguing us here. Toynebee once wrote that "Civilizations die from suicide, not murder." It just seems to be the way of things.
But, in the end, I find that my citizenship lies elsewhere (Philippians 3:20). Does that mean I abandon this world and its inhabitants to its own destructive devices? No. In fact, I think this allows me to say and do what I think is right and true and good. You've seen the movie The Dark Knight. I actually think that is one of the more subtle messages of the movie. It is only the one who above "the law" (who is bound by a greater Law) that can do the things that must be done.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
:up:
And advanced the greater good, if incrementally, setting the stage for the next attempt...but we have a new mechanism in play, a means to peaceful revolution and reinvention. I don't think history quite knows what to do with that.
Invictus.
Sure. And He seemed remarkably invested in how we treat one another. So I'd say our investment in advancing the good, for as long as we can up to and including the indefinite is on message, no?
:e4e:
Ted L Glines
New member
"But my son who is stationed oversees has seen the shape other countries are in. They are in a whole lot worse shape then America. In many placed pederasty and pedophilia is legal. The things he has told me left me thoroughly disgusted. Both he and myself are more appreciative of being Americans."
I have no problem being a patriot. We are certainly imperfect, but I'll fight for the good potential of what America can be. Where I can help change a bad thing into something better or good, I'm on it. Whining won't do anything but add negativity.
I have no problem being a patriot. We are certainly imperfect, but I'll fight for the good potential of what America can be. Where I can help change a bad thing into something better or good, I'm on it. Whining won't do anything but add negativity.
Cracked
New member
This is how it works:
If you are a conservative disgusted with the US when we have a more liberal government, you "hate your country" according to the opposition.
If you are a liberal disgusted with the US when we have a more conservative government, you "hate your country" according to the opposition.
It seems that people are only truly patriots when the right teams in charge. How did we become so polarized? I would say, if I had to blame it on a single thing, that it is due to a lack of humility.
I do not consider myself a patriot. I consider myself a Christian. I appreciate the good in my country, and I disturbed by the evil. It is not as if I have to see it as all good or all evil. That is an overly simplistic way of viewing reality. It simply is what it is--with all its flaws and moments of virtue, and we should do what we can to make it a better place in all humility.
If you are a conservative disgusted with the US when we have a more liberal government, you "hate your country" according to the opposition.
If you are a liberal disgusted with the US when we have a more conservative government, you "hate your country" according to the opposition.
It seems that people are only truly patriots when the right teams in charge. How did we become so polarized? I would say, if I had to blame it on a single thing, that it is due to a lack of humility.
I do not consider myself a patriot. I consider myself a Christian. I appreciate the good in my country, and I disturbed by the evil. It is not as if I have to see it as all good or all evil. That is an overly simplistic way of viewing reality. It simply is what it is--with all its flaws and moments of virtue, and we should do what we can to make it a better place in all humility.
PureX
Well-known member
I didn't say anything about liberals or conservatives in my post. I was only speaking of those who seem to think that it's their duty to force everyone else to comply with their ideas about how things should be. They spout off about patriotism, but in reality they don't understand America at all. They don't understand that this is a nation based on pluralism. A nation of different people from different places with different traditions and different desires and different ideologies, who become one nation not because they all agree, but because they can agree to disagree; because they can respect each other's differences, and even learn from them.
If you saw yourself in the group of liars and fools that I pointed out then that's something for you to deal with within yourself. Don't insult me for it. I never mentioned your name. I'm just pointing out that when these people claim that they're patriots, they're lying. And when they claim that they know what America is supposed to be, they're fools. That's all I'm saying, and it's true. And no silly attempt at misdirection or insult is going to change that.
some other dude
New member
John Mortimer
New member
I'm glad you're an optimist, Quincy.
I wouldn't be surprised if the quiet majority in the USA turned out to have pretty much the same angle as you.
How patriotic to Egypt were the Israelites?
Things change back and forth.
God turns nations to Him by a few, and then as the few become many, they become slack , that is they do not continue in the faith of their fathers by whom God had delivered the nation.(or kingdom)
Then God raises up rulers who do not know Joseph (Jesus) in order to show His own just how much they have fallen away from Him and they all enter into terrible bondage and enslavement to the world until His own cry out for a long time as God raises up a few again to build up another peoples free from knowing the gods of Egypt and drawing many of the ignorant to be included in that new nation with the few who reign over them.
The drama of their exodus and judgment upon the egypts is well documented in the Bible, both the egypts of the past (including the ones of Israel) and the one of the future which is worldwide.
LA.
Things change back and forth.
God turns nations to Him by a few, and then as the few become many, they become slack , that is they do not continue in the faith of their fathers by whom God had delivered the nation.(or kingdom)
Then God raises up rulers who do not know Joseph (Jesus) in order to show His own just how much they have fallen away from Him and they all enter into terrible bondage and enslavement to the world until His own cry out for a long time as God raises up a few again to build up another peoples free from knowing the gods of Egypt and drawing many of the ignorant to be included in that new nation with the few who reign over them.
The drama of their exodus and judgment upon the egypts is well documented in the Bible, both the egypts of the past (including the ones of Israel) and the one of the future which is worldwide.
LA.
Quincy
New member
I'm glad you're an optimist, Quincy.
I wouldn't be surprised if the quiet majority in the USA turned out to have pretty much the same angle as you.
I would hope that people could put their own person perferences aside for what's best for everyone.
I would hope
.
some other dude
New member
We're all in this together.
Keep your stick on the ice.
Keep your stick on the ice.
I don't know how to answer that question.
I love people, and as that stands I love this nation of people. I want what's best for them. I do not see the government of this United States as being the best for them, not even the idea of the US, as many of its ideals are faulty foundations which have led us to where we are, and sadly many of the founding fathers knew this could happen and did nothing to change the foundation which they set.