toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe

[Letsargue]

Hypocrite?

I never said that you were a "so-called-christian", and you would be correct to object if I did. I don't misrepresent people who believe that the lost must endure eternal conscious torment in hell by referring to them as people who believe the lost must endure eternal conscious torment in hell.

I see that you have to indulge in name-calling. Okay, call me a hypocrite if it makes you feel better about the doctrine you hold. In the meantime, I know that I am a Bible-Believing-Christian.

Bible believing Christian HHUUHHH!!! - Which verse is not the "absolute Truth" as it's written in it's fullness without leaving anything OUT??? - John 3:16 KJV ---or --- Acts 2:38 KJV - You all ( cannot accept ) Acts two:38 KJV --- and you say you believe God???? - Well God said Acrs two:38 KJV - also, and it is absolute Truth AS it's written in full!!! -- So reject the Truth / Christ again, or ignore Him in full!!!

Paul -- 040613

 

[Timotheos]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 2:38??? Of course I believe that.

 

[Letsargue]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 2:38??? Of course I believe that.

Yes! Christ did say that ALSO; and it the Truth!!! --- And Christ - ALSO - SAID: ---- "Repent" ( And be Baptized ), (( every one of you )) ( in the name of Jesus Christ ) [ for the remession if sins ] and ye shall reveive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost ))!!!!! ---///--- There's just more of the Truth in mine, not lies added!!! -- Because your verse if Truth, that makes mine a Lie??? - Tell us all that mine is not as true as yours!!!! Or yours is Truer than Mine!!!

Paul -- 040813

 

[Timotheos]

John 3:16 and Acts 2:38 are not lies.

The Bible never says that the wicked go to hell when they die, where they are to be tormented alive forever while they are dead.

 

[Aimiel]

You're right, It doesn't, you have to read and understand what you read in order to know the truth. The Bible doesn't 'say' anything, unless you have an ear of faith.

 

[Timotheos]

You're right, It doesn't, you have to read and understand what you read in order to know the truth. The Bible doesn't 'say' anything, unless you have an ear of faith.

Thank you. And the Bible especially doesn't say "bad people go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever while they are dead." But the Bible DOES say (If you have an ear of faith): "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

[Aimiel]

No, It doesn't... you have to be able to read... since The Bible cannot speak.

 

[Letsargue]

John 3:16 and Acts 2:38 are not lies.

The Bible never says that the wicked go to hell when they die, where they are to be tormented alive forever while they are dead.

NO!!! – It doesn’t say it just like that, ( how tricky and deceiving )!!! – It does However, say for US to pull some of them out of the “FIRE” now; - those who are ( Dead in sin now ). --- Jude 1:23 KJV --- Just what fire is GOD TALKING ABOUT, if not the Fires of Hell??? ---- Those who are NOW DEAD in sin!!!!! – SO, - from what GOD Said, - the lost, and dead in sin are there NOW in spirit, and can’t SEE the Truth!!! --- Luke 16:23 KJV – 23- “And (( in hell he lift up his eyes )), ((( BEING ))) in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. ----//--- Being in torments (S). ----- How many and for how long has he been, - being there in THEM??? – NOW I didn’t say that; but it’s as true as -- John three 16 KJV ----///---

Paul – 040813

 

[Timotheos]

No, It doesn't... you have to be able to read... since The Bible cannot speak.

I'm reading what it says. I'm not reading what is not written there.

 

[Aimiel]

I can see we're dealing with a learning curve here. Abstractions are too much for you, aren't they?

 

[Timotheos]

I can see we're dealing with a learning curve here. Abstractions are too much for you, aren't they?

If I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. I am just reading the Bible as it was written. If it means something different from what it says, it should say that it means something different from what it says. You almost seem to be saying I have a learning disability because I believe what is written in the Bible. If you understood every nuance and abstraction in the Bible, but you treat people with disrespect, you haven't really learned anything from reading the Bible. Abstractions are not too much for me, I understand where they are used AND WHERE THEY ARE NOT. Is it too much to ask for you to keep your snide comments to yourself?

 

[Letsargue]

If I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. I am just reading the Bible as it was written. If it means something different from what it says, it should say that it means something different from what it says. You almost seem to be saying I have a learning disability because I believe what is written in the Bible. If you understood every nuance and abstraction in the Bible, but you treat people with disrespect, you haven't really learned anything from reading the Bible. Abstractions are not too much for me, I understand where they are used AND WHERE THEY ARE NOT. Is it too much to ask for you to keep your snide comments to yourself?

You’re only taking the part you want to support your own belief, and if I show you another like Scripture, but has more (( ADDED TO IT BY GOD)), you reject it and accuse me of calling you a liar. – You also accuse me of saying ( YOU ADDED ) to it, when GOD did the adding to the verse I gave and you can’t use it in your Faith!! – That’s all I’m referring to!! - I haven’t called you anything or any others anything. I’m just saying that every verse is exactly equal in Truth as any other verse including John three:16 KJV --- There’s no difference!!!

Paul – 040813

 

[Krsto]

We all die.
We all go to the grave.
Hell is the grave.
So we all go to hell.
Believers have been granted eternal life so rise from the grave to live in God's presence.
The wages of sin is death so sinners who have not been granted eternal life don't get it after they end up in the grave.
Only those who have received the free gift of life in Jesus Christ are raised to experience eternal life.
The rest are dead and stay that way.
If they are raised to be cast into a lake of fire and incinerated fine, but I tend not to take Revelation literally since it wasn't meant to be taken literally.
So I guess you can call me an annihilationist who's not sure about an actual literal annihilation of the unsaved.
Besides, it's too hard to spell.

 

[Letsargue]

We all die.
We all go to the grave.
Hell is the grave.
So we all go to hell.
Believers have been granted eternal life so rise from the grave to live in God's presence.
The wages of sin is death so sinners who have not been granted eternal life don't get it after they end up in the grave.
Only those who have received the free gift of life in Jesus Christ are raised to experience eternal life.
The rest are dead and stay that way.
If they are raised to be cast into a lake of fire and incinerated fine, but I tend not to take Revelation literally since it wasn't meant to be taken literally.
So I guess you can call me an annihilationist who's not sure about an actual literal annihilation of the unsaved.
Besides, it's too hard to spell.

One cannot die if he’s already dead. – Dead in sin is a far worse death than the mere dieing of the flesh that only goes to the cold, cold ground. The flesh never feels or knows anything forever. However, there is a Second DEATH!! – The grave is called hell and the lake of fire is called hell also, only they both are where the DEAD GO; Body or Soul. The dead go to hell / grave or the Lake of Fire, but the fool gets the reward he has ( desired / prayed for ). --- Is it possible for a fool to desire or Pray to go to Hell / the Lake of Fire?? – YES, - if Satan has convinced him that it’s Heaven there, and Heaven is hell. That’s why it’s SOO important to READ, READ, and keep Reading GOD’S MIND, and not give place to the LIAR!!!

Paul – 040913

 

[Krsto]

One cannot die if he’s already dead. – Dead in sin is a far worse death than the mere dieing of the flesh that only goes to the cold, cold ground. The flesh never feels or knows anything forever. However, there is a Second DEATH!! – The grave is called hell and the lake of fire is called hell also, only they both are where the DEAD GO; Body or Soul. The dead go to hell / grave or the Lake of Fire, but the fool gets the reward he has ( desired / prayed for ). --- Is it possible for a fool to desire or Pray to go to Hell / the Lake of Fire?? – YES, - if Satan has convinced him that it’s Heaven there, and Heaven is hell. That’s why it’s SOO important to READ, READ, and keep Reading GOD’S MIND, and not give place to the LIAR!!!

Paul – 040913

The Lake of Fire is never called Hell. Quite to the contrary, Revelation makes a distinction between the two when it says Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hell (the grave) being cast into the Lake of Fire tells me Hell will at some point be incinerated and thus be no more. You will never accept that because you relish the idea of people suffering forever.

 

[Aimiel]

If I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing.

If you knew what love is, you wouldn't seek your own promotion so much.

I am just reading the Bible as it was written.

I wish. You skip the parts you don't like.

You almost seem to be saying I have a learning disability because I believe what is written in the Bible.

No, I'm wondering if you can follow a concept... I tried to show you that The Bible doesn't 'say' anything, since it is just words on paper. The Bible is Truth, but we have to read, understand and apply those words for them to be alive in us. The Lord speaks through His Word, but if you turn a deaf ear to Him, you're going to be confused about what He's saying.

If you understood every nuance and abstraction in the Bible, but you treat people with disrespect, you haven't really learned anything from reading the Bible.

I meant no disrespect, merely wanted to know if you understood me. Obviously you don't.

Abstractions are not too much for me, I understand where they are used AND WHERE THEY ARE NOT. Is it too much to ask for you to keep your snide comments to yourself?

I could ignore you, if you prefer; but I'd rather win you to the light, so that you could be closer to The Lord, by believing what He says, rather than what you want to represent Him as saying.

 

[Aimiel]

The Lake of Fire is never called Hell. Quite to the contrary, Revelation makes a distinction between the two when it says Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hell (the grave) being cast into the Lake of Fire tells me Hell will at some point be incinerated and thus be no more. You will never accept that because you relish the idea of people suffering forever.

Hell isn't the grave.

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The spirits of Death and Hell will be cast into eternal torment in the Lake of Fire and will be tormented for ever and ever along with all those men whose names were not found in The Lamb's Book of Life.

Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Letsargue]

Hell isn't the grave.

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The spirits of Death and Hell will be cast into eternal torment in the Lake of Fire and will be tormented for ever and ever along with all those men whose names were not found in The Lamb's Book of Life.

Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

THEY are also called, the "Pit", and the "Bottemless PIT"!!!

Paul -- 040913

 

[Timotheos]

If you knew what love is, you wouldn't seek your own promotion so much.

I don't seek my own promotion, see my posts. I only say what the Bible says, and if anyone says something that the Bible doesn't say, I ask where I can see it in the Bible.

I wish. You skip the parts you don't like.

I keep requesting that you show me the passages that you think I skip, and you keep on ignoring my request. If you really believed I skipped over the passages I don't like, you would point them out.

No, I'm wondering if you can follow a concept... I tried to show you that The Bible doesn't 'say' anything, since it is just words on paper. The Bible is Truth, but we have to read, understand and apply those words for them to be alive in us.

I can follow a concept, but I'm not going to believe something just because you say so. Tell me why you believe what you believe, using scripture. This shouldn't be a difficult request for someone as wise as you are.

The Lord speaks through His Word, but if you turn a deaf ear to Him, you're going to be confused about what He's saying.I meant no disrespect, merely wanted to know if you understood me. Obviously you don't.I could ignore you, if you prefer; but I'd rather win you to the light, so that you could be closer to The Lord, by believing what He says, rather than what you want to represent Him as saying.

The trouble is that you are not telling me what the Lord says through his word. You are telling me things that his word does not say. I don't turn a deaf ear to him. I just don't believe the things that you are saying which are not in the Bible.

 

[Aimiel]

THEY are also called, the "Pit", and the "Bottemless PIT"!!!

You can picture a bottomless pit riding a horse? I can, but it doesn't fit Scripture. The Bible is talking about Death and Hell as if they are spirits, which they are, as well as (to our understanding) a verb and a place of torments.