toldailytopic: Do you think people are showing less respect to the military and if so

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 11th, 2012 09:33 AM


toldailytopic: Do you think people are showing less respect to the military and if so, why?






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Buzzword

New member
I'd say the Defense Department is showing the military more disrespect than any individual citizen ever could.

Keeping them deployed for YEARS longer than they enlisted for, deploying them with faulty equipment, spending the money which is supposed to be used to PAY them and BUY THEM WORKING EQUIPMENT on mercenaries who in the end could care less if they're shooting Iraqis or Americans, refusing to let them be discharged after their twentieth combat deployment finally ends, and refusing veteran's benefits to the ones who actually manage to get back into the workforce (all five of them).

Thus the spike in suicide rates for soldiers over the past few years.
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
toldailytopic: Do you think people are showing less respect to the military and if so, why?


As opposed to when...and which people? :plain:


Rudyard Kipling (circa1892) said:
TOMMY


I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint of beer.
The publican 'e ups an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me.
They sent me to the gallery or 'round the music-'alls.
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! They'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopships' on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy 'ow's your soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O, it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country," when the guns begins to shoot;
Yes, it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!​



Same as it ever was. :plain:
~David Byrn
 

notreligus

New member
As opposed to when...and which people? :plain:


Same as it ever was. :plain:
~David Byrn

Those were my first thoughts as well.

However, I will say this. I believe that there is a general mistrust and general disrespect for our leaders, and this is manifested as a disrespect for the military. Ever since the Viet Nam War the American public has not felt that any long-term purpose has been served by the investment made in money and military toward fighting these various communist and/or military regimes we have fought since then, including the present terrorist regimes we are dealing with. I think this is a short-sighted view but it does prevail.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
I'd say the Defense Department is showing the military more disrespect than any individual citizen ever could.

Keeping them deployed for YEARS longer than they enlisted for, deploying them with faulty equipment, spending the money which is supposed to be used to PAY them and BUY THEM WORKING EQUIPMENT on mercenaries who in the end could care less if they're shooting Iraqis or Americans, refusing to let them be discharged after their twentieth combat deployment finally ends, and refusing veteran's benefits to the ones who actually manage to get back into the workforce (all five of them).

Thus the spike in suicide rates for soldiers over the past few years.
This has always been true. The suffering that the American soldiers had to endure at Valley Forge during the winter of 1777-78 is mind numbing. There was a severe food shortage, lack of clothing and shoes, and Typhoid, jaundice, dysentery, and pneumonia killed 2,500 men that winter.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
I think people may be directing their anger over the wars, and the leaders who sent our troops to war, toward the troops. But I've also seen soldiers, and officers, getting a lot of respect in spite of animosity toward the wars themselves.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Soldiers aren't sacred. They're just people like anyone else. We respect them for being willing to "stand the wall" for us. And we honor those who were standing there when the enemy came because they had to kill and die to protect us. I think the best thing we can do to honor our soldiers is to remember that they're men and women, just like us. They ARE us.
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
It seems to me like respect for the military is at a high point. Soldiers are frequently referred to as heros and you can't even mention past service without someone thanking you. I suppose in Berkely, San Fransisco, and Boulder its different.
 

Eeset

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LIFETIME MEMBER
I think I had more respect for those in the military when there was a draft and those who served were from all economic and social strata. Now I think it is too mercenary and the US has also outsourced many functions which has ballooned the costs.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Yes they are getting plenty of respect from the nation including mainstream church people. They are heroes of this country.
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It seems to me like respect for the military is at a high point. Soldiers are frequently referred to as heros and you can't even mention past service without someone thanking you. I suppose in Berkely, San Fransisco, and Boulder its different.
This was certainly true for the first years after 9-11 but it seems to be changing some. It's not near as bad as it was during the later part and after Vietnam though!
 
S

Strefanash

Guest
the myths that made military worth anything are hopefully dying.

After all, to rape murder and pillage, all at the state's behest. What fun!!

IOW to see war as nothing but this is to see the mythos of the thing dying.

It is not a sacrifice to be killed in a bar fight; and that is all war is, a bar fight between governments
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
the myths that made military worth anything are hopefully dying.

After all, to rape murder and pillage, all at the state's behest. What fun!!

IOW to see war as nothing but this is to see the mythos of the thing dying.

It is not a sacrifice to be killed in a bar fight; and that is all war is, a bar fight between governments


Have you ever met Meshak? :plain:


never mind...


Your view is as simplistic as the jingoistic half-wits who think that the battlefield is there for glory. Just the other side of the same stupid coin. :yawn:
 

noguru

Well-known member
the myths that made military worth anything are hopefully dying.

After all, to rape murder and pillage, all at the state's behest. What fun!!

IOW to see war as nothing but this is to see the mythos of the thing dying.

It is not a sacrifice to be killed in a bar fight; and that is all war is, a bar fight between governments

Have you ever been in a bar fight?

I have worked security in clubs. I'd say most conflicts are like that. Security making it easier for others to enjoy life. Standing up against the bullies and those that think they can intimidate others. And yes, I have met some security people who abuse their power.
 

lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
Soldiers aren't sacred. They're just people like anyone else.

I've never met a Veteran of War that thought they were sacred.

But, they are not like anyone else...they are men/women that believe strongly enough to risk their lives for that belief.

I think the best thing we can do to honor our soldiers is to remember that they're men and women, just like us.

How about buying a $2 flag and plant it at the end of the drive or better yet spend $20 and hang one from your house, it is after all only one day of the year to show your respect toward those that served.

They ARE us.

This is where you are wrong, there is no us, it is a club of participation, let them have this little thing on one day of the year without an attempt to join something that few can claim!

Respect toward the military has increased since the Vietnam conflict, thank goodness, it was not unusual to have protesters throw things at us as we returned nor unusual for a man in uniform to be slapped in public, sad times and difficult for those that experienced it...towards the end of Vietnam I was on recruiting duty, shopping in a grocery store in full dress blues, a woman approached me, I braced for what ever tirade she was about to throw at me, instead she hugged me and said "thank God there are still men willing to stand for what is right!", I couldn't say anything to her for a moment, I was choked up for a second, as she was leaving all that I was able to say was, thank you for your belief in freedom!
 

Buzzword

New member
I've never met a Veteran of War that thought they were sacred.

But, they are not like anyone else...they are men/women that believe strongly enough to risk their lives for that belief.

The veterans of my generation didn't "believe."
They were either indoctrinated from day 1 to think of the military as humanity's greatest achievement, or enlisted as a means to an end (free college education, vocational training, etc.)

Both groups have now become disillusioned after multiple fruitless combat deployments and a decade of politically motivated military stupidity.

Everyone should read Generation Kill by Evan Wright.
Especially anyone who still views American soldiers as extras in a John Wayne movie (whether positively or negatively).

Towards the end of Vietnam I was on recruiting duty, shopping in a grocery store in full dress blues, a woman approached me, I braced for what ever tirade she was about to throw at me, instead she hugged me and said "thank God there are still men willing to stand for what is right!", I couldn't say anything to her for a moment, I was choked up for a second, as she was leaving all that I was able to say was, thank you for your belief in freedom!

Awesome story.
 

Rusha

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Soldiers aren't sacred. They're just people like anyone else. We respect them for being willing to "stand the wall" for us. And we honor those who were standing there when the enemy came because they had to kill and die to protect us. I think the best thing we can do to honor our soldiers is to remember that they're men and women, just like us. They ARE us.

I respectfully disagree. Soldiers (like police officers and fire fighters) work in a profession where part of the job requirement is a willingness to put their lives on the line to serve and protect the rest of us.
 

Buzzword

New member
I respectfully disagree. Soldiers (like police officers and fire fighters) work in a profession where part of the job requirement is a willingness to put their lives on the line to serve and protect the rest of us.

Except that police and firefighters generally take up the job because they want to help people.

There's no commercials for the NYPD advertising free college tuition after your second year driving a patrol car.
 

Rusha

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Except that police and firefighters generally take up the job because they want to help people.

Firefighters, yes ... however, in the case of police officers, I don't believe that is always the case.

There's no commercials for the NYPD advertising free college tuition after your second year driving a patrol car.

Is there any particular reason that a person shouldn't take advantage of the opportunity to learn a profession or earn a degree during the time they are serving their country?
 
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