toldailytopic: Best and worst forms of government, what does the evidence suggest?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 3rd, 2010 10:12 AM

toldailytopic: Best and worst forms of government, what does the evidence suggest?

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[Granite]

The best for who?

Special interests? The people? Oligarchs? Big business?

Totally depends.

Personally I favor a more decentralized system similar to the Articles of Confederation.

 

[MaryContrary]

Any form of government can be benevolent, if the leaders are benevolent. As any can be malevolent, if they are malevolent. The various forms of government, it seems to me, are designed to either expand or limit how much its leaders can express either. This lends itself to stability but not so much to encourage that good be done. So the particular form of government hasn't much to do with how "good" it is. It is the leadership, almost entirely, that determines that.

That said, certain forms of government are typically sought out by, or themselves attract, evil leaders. So one could judge based on that alone.

 

[Seydlitz77]

I have to agree with Mary any form of government can be beneficial or destructive.

A Monarchy with a benevolent and righteous monarch would be a great blessing to a nation and it's people whereas a democracy where the majority are choosing unrighteousness can eventually destroy a nation.

That being said I think that the safest forms of Government are democratic in nature or in part, provided there is open discourse on all topics and no group or governing body is trying to restrict or "guide" public discourse for their own ends.

 

[This Charming Manc]

the evidence usually suggests the examiners predesposed feelings on the subject

 

[Town Heretic]

toldailytopic: Best and worst forms of government, what does the evidence suggest?

I like the odds and track record of our present system over any other...

 

[Ktoyou]

Personally I favor a more decentralized system similar to the Articles of Confederation.

I will agree. For me, the best form of government would be a republic, based on something similar to the Jeffersonian model. I believe in states right to be sovereign. The best federal government is the one that governs least; it should represent the united states in foreign policy and regulate the issue of currency and the postal services.

I think each individual state should be free of federal entanglements, that being, if California wants medical marijuana, I think it should be a state matter, yet, as it is now, the federal government has the authority to make arrests. I think the federal government should only involve itself is interstate matters, the California marijuana issue is an intrastate matter. The same with Arizona and its immigration laws; they should be a state matter.

The way I see it, there are plenty of states, to which everyone in the US could get along if we did not have the federal government involved. I think prayer in school and corporal punishment would be legal in much of the South if the federal government had little influence. I think local authority is the best and that authority should be the wishes of the people of that state.

Now, traditionally, since the War between the States, people have come to believe that the states would not be representative of the minority opinion. I am not referring to race and ethnicity, as I believe we have come to terms with these matters. I think the main thrust of the immigration issue is increased population of those needing assistance, rather than prejudice against the person.

The main problem is the minority opinion of issues, such as prayer in school, abortion, and legal marijuana. Not having favoured majoritarian politics in the past, this is still a difficult issue for me.

One thing the US has in favour compared to Europe, is each state can become home without immigration and the language is mainly the same. If one was at such odds with his fellow statesmen, he could always move to another state.

The wost form of government is the opposite of this. Any autocracy, whether in the name of socialism, communism or fascism would be the wost form of government.

Liberty should be our most treasured value, as well as to freedom to work in the pursuit of property.

 

[Traditio]

Evidence? I don't believe in "evidence."

The best government is an enlightened monarchy/aristocracy of philosopher-kings. The next best is a timocracy (rule by the military). The next best is an oligarchy (rule by the rich). The second-to-worst is the democracy. The worst government is a tyranny.

Plato says as much in the Republic.

 

[Charity]

If government has not been seen to govern in power successfully, Logic is; Nations still have the time the power an resources to teach them they do not need their heavy ruling an the iron rod.- charity

In all Honor of


“I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.”
-Thomas Jefferson

 

[The Berean]

Evidence? I don't believe in "evidence."

The best government is an enlightened monarchy/aristocracy of philosopher-kings. The next best is a timocracy (rule by the military). The next best is an oligarchy (rule by the rich). The second-to-worst is the democracy. The worst government is a tyranny.

Plato says as much in the Republic.

What we need the least are philosophers in charge. Nothing would get done, they'd spend all day debating every minor issues.

 

[Charity]

we are born inattentive, without consciousness of exploring liberty; the power belongs to the people, an is navigated, damaging the iron rod is set within eternity, before Many Inattentive Nations must be pushed to the depths before the adventurer into imagination for the reality of truth of who is really in-control! A switch in darkness is seen at the dawn of a new day..much could be achieved over wolves.

In Honor of


“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.”

Thomas Jefferson

 

[MrRadish]

Evidence? I don't believe in "evidence."

The best government is an enlightened monarchy/aristocracy of philosopher-kings. The next best is a timocracy (rule by the military). The next best is an oligarchy (rule by the rich). The second-to-worst is the democracy. The worst government is a tyranny.

Plato says as much in the Republic.

Ah yes. The Republic. In which Plato, a philosopher who used to be a professional wrestler, argues that his hypothetical utopia's bizarre caste-system would be best off ruled autocratically by a philosopher who used to be a professional wrestler. Suspicious. :think:

Incidentally, Trad, did the philosophy course you studied focus much on critical, independent thought? It's just that I've noticed you don't tend to question the theories you quote very much. It might just be a style thing, but by some of your posts it looks like you think that if a philosopher's written about an issue, it's cut and dry. Of course it might just be that you only quote philosophers you believe are incontrovertibly and indisputably correct. I'm just curious.

 

[Quincy]

Evidence? I don't believe in "evidence."

The best government is an enlightened monarchy/aristocracy of philosopher-kings. The next best is a timocracy (rule by the military). The next best is an oligarchy (rule by the rich). The second-to-worst is the democracy. The worst government is a tyranny.

Plato says as much in the Republic.

I hope you realize that contextualized writings are always indeterminate to subsequent readers. The only halfway decent way of trying to figure it out is with interactional linguistics. That's hardly useful. That's why religion and philosophy are only useful to the person that wrote it, and why no one can agree on what they were saying after they're dead :chuckle: .


Anyways, back ot, it looks like our mighty federalist empire is about to reach the point of collapse. I say we back the confederate articles as well. Give sovereignty back to the states and the individual. Kick the authoritarians to the streets.

 

[Buzzword]

I say we back the confederate articles as well. Give sovereignty back to the states and the individual. Kick the authoritarians to the streets.

Only problem with deification of smaller government is that authoritarians start becoming content with holding greater power over a smaller group of people.

But that's a potential risk regardless of the system.
I've seen neighborhood associations who are the most power-hungry group of fascists I've ever heard of.

 

[Yorzhik]

The evidence suggests that democracy fails after the people realize they can vote themselves money from the public trough. This is the inexorable path democracy will take because the people cannot suddenly all be changed. In other words, once the monster is created the nation must die to kill it.

A republic we quickly find has both the problems of a democracy and an extra problem of special interests being able to buy themselves loopholes in the law.

An oligarchy, once it turned into a tyranny, would not change until the country was destroyed. This is because the philosophy of the group will live on even after any individual dies.

That leaves a monarchy. It has all the problems of the oligarchy except a country can be saved if a bad king dies quickly enough.

 

[Nick M]

What we need the least are philosophers in charge. Nothing would get done, they'd spend all day debating every minor issues.

Besides that, comicus is a funny guy.

 

[Ktoyou]

Evidence? I don't believe in "evidence."

The best government is an enlightened monarchy/aristocracy of philosopher-kings. The next best is a timocracy (rule by the military). The next best is an oligarchy (rule by the rich). The second-to-worst is the democracy. The worst government is a tyranny.

Plato says as much in the Republic.

Plato also said the philosopher caste would be content living communally and without much luxury while the bottom caste should have the luxuries and material goods.

Rule by the rich would be opposite.

A police state would be a nightmare!

Plato might have known himself well, but he did not understand human nature.

In any culture, a ruling class will emerge and history teaches the ruling class will want most of all the goods and property, not to mention power.

What best controls the power of a ruling class is local authority, as what encourages it, is centralized power.

 

[Frank Ernest]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 3rd, 2010 10:12 AM

toldailytopic: Best and worst forms of government, what does the evidence suggest?

The best form of government is that which affords its citizens the most liberty and freedom possible.

 

[Caino]

"If one man craves freedom—liberty—he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom. Groups of such liberty-loving mortals cannot live together in peace without becoming subservient to such laws, rules, and regulations as will grant each person the same degree of freedom while at the same time safeguarding an equal degree of freedom for all of his fellow mortals. If one man is to be absolutely free, then another must become an absolute slave. And the relative nature of freedom is true socially, economically, and politically. Freedom is the gift of civilization made possible by the enforcement of LAW." UB 1955


Caino

 

[Granite]

The evidence suggests that democracy fails after the people realize they can vote themselves money from the public trough. This is the inexorable path democracy will take because the people cannot suddenly all be changed. In other words, once the monster is created the nation must die to kill it.

A republic we quickly find has both the problems of a democracy and an extra problem of special interests being able to buy themselves loopholes in the law.

An oligarchy, once it turned into a tyranny, would not change until the country was destroyed. This is because the philosophy of the group will live on even after any individual dies.

That leaves a monarchy. It has all the problems of the oligarchy except a country can be saved if a bad king dies quickly enough.

You monarchists are so amusing.